JetBlue has the cost of depreciating new A320's, Song doesn't have to depreciate new aircraft. Delta has quite an inventory of 757's. These "new" old airplanes are just fine for SONG. SONG flies from LGA, EWR & JFK, one advantage over JetBLUE.
How Song can beat JetBlue at it''s own game!
- Thread starter AAplanesareold
- Start date
AAplanesareold
Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
----------------
On 7/29/2003 7:24:26 AM Farley wrote:
AAsflamesarecold
It's pretty clear that you won't be getting a call to join the planning department of any airline anytime soon. But in the meantime we'd love to hear all of your ideas. (no really)
----------------
On 7/29/2003 7:24:26 AM Farley wrote:
AAsflamesarecold
It's pretty clear that you won't be getting a call to join the planning department of any airline anytime soon. But in the meantime we'd love to hear all of your ideas. (no really)
----------------
What makes you think that I don't work in the scheduling department of an airline right now?
You can't judge a book by it's cover.
AirplaneFan
Advanced
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 174
- Reaction score
- 0
ARRGGGHHH! You critics need to get your stories straight. On one hand, some argue that JetBlue has some kind of unfair advantage cause they buy new planes. Now you argue that Delta (Song) has an advantage because they have old planes. First of all, are they all paid for? Secondly what about the maintenance costs on the planes?
----------------
On 7/29/2003 7:37:26 AM JFK777 wrote:
JetBlue has the cost of depreciating new A320's, Song doesn't have to depreciate new aircraft. Delta has quite an inventory of 757's. These "new" old airplanes are just fine for SONG. SONG flies from LGA, EWR & JFK, one advantage over JetBLUE.
----------------
AAplanesareold
Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
The route with the highest average fare for JetBlue is (or at least was until recently), JFK to SJU. Song should be slamming JetBlue with multiple, daily flights from JFK to SJU.
Did you people know that Delta does the ground handling (below the wing), for JetBlue in SJU? Talk about an awkward situation.
Did you people know that Delta does the ground handling (below the wing), for JetBlue in SJU? Talk about an awkward situation.
Cart Pusher
Advanced
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 146
- Reaction score
- 0
----------------
On 7/28/2003 5:49:24 AM AAplanesareold wrote:
Throwing a bone at some wholesalers and travel agencies wouldn't hurt either. You would be surprised how anti-JetBlue some travel agencies are due to the screw you attitude JetBlue has towards travel agents.
----------------
On 7/28/2003 5:49:24 AM AAplanesareold wrote:
Throwing a bone at some wholesalers and travel agencies wouldn't hurt either. You would be surprised how anti-JetBlue some travel agencies are due to the screw you attitude JetBlue has towards travel agents.
----------------
I think that travel agents, long ago, figured out that no airline gives a rats behind about them. The airlines are more interested in directing sales to the internet than paying travel agencies commission. It's been this way for a while now. Further, the airlines really don't need, nor do they depend on, travel agencies to sell their product. There aren't many consumers that will pay a travel agent fee to book a ticket. As for corporate agencies, most of their clients use airlines that offer their companies the best negotiated corporate deals, they aren't really looking for travel agent advice as to the best airline to fly on.
AAplanesareold
Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
----------------
On 7/29/2003 10:29:26 PM Cart Pusher wrote:
I think that travel agents, long ago, figured out that no airline gives a rats behind about them. The airlines are more interested in directing sales to the internet than paying travel agencies commission. It's been this way for a while now. Further, the airlines really don't need, nor do they depend on, travel agencies to sell their product. There aren't many consumers that will pay a travel agent fee to book a ticket. As for corporate agencies, most of their clients use airlines that offer their companies the best negotiated corporate deals, they aren't really looking for travel agent advice as to the best airline to fly on.
----------------
On 7/29/2003 10:29:26 PM Cart Pusher wrote:
I think that travel agents, long ago, figured out that no airline gives a rats behind about them. The airlines are more interested in directing sales to the internet than paying travel agencies commission. It's been this way for a while now. Further, the airlines really don't need, nor do they depend on, travel agencies to sell their product. There aren't many consumers that will pay a travel agent fee to book a ticket. As for corporate agencies, most of their clients use airlines that offer their companies the best negotiated corporate deals, they aren't really looking for travel agent advice as to the best airline to fly on.
----------------
Some airlines still derive a substantial amount of revenue from travel agents. It's definitely declining overall, but it's still there.
Song could position itself as a travel agent friendly carrier and highlight that difference vis a vis JetBlue.
----------------
On 7/30/2003 8:42:53 AM AAplanesareold wrote:
Some airlines still derive a substantial amount of revenue from travel agents. It's definitely declining overall, but it's still there.
----------------
...and those are not LCCs. Cutting out the travel agent is almost a set criterion of an LCC. Technology has replaced the travel agent.On 7/30/2003 8:42:53 AM AAplanesareold wrote:
Some airlines still derive a substantial amount of revenue from travel agents. It's definitely declining overall, but it's still there.
----------------
AirplaneFan
Advanced
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 174
- Reaction score
- 0
From theStreet.com
Of all the earnings reports, JetBlue's was the strongest, said
William Alderman, president of Alderman & Co., a boutique aerospace
investment firm. JetBlue managed to boost profit, load factors and
margins, while flying more flights. "JetBlue was the biggest
surprise. I really thought they would see margin erosion as they
grew and was truly surprised they could scale up that fast without
any erosion to margins," Alderman said.
The New York-based carrier is a good example of how low-cost
carriers plan to gnaw away at the network carriers' business.
Because JetBlue can charge less for fares and still post a profit, a
rival like Delta, which just launched its low-cost Song Airlines
unit, is forced to lose money by matching JetBlue's cheap fares out
of John F. Kennedy Airport in New York in an attempt to keep market
share.
Using the low-cost model to outperform older stalwarts is nothing
new -- Southwest has been doing it for three decades -- but the
success and scope of the model's success has picked up steam
recently. JetBlue boosted capacity by nearly 70% over year-ago
levels in the second quarter, while load factor, or the percentage
of seats filled, came in at an industry high of 85%. The end result:
JetBlue's revenue was $245 million, up 64% over last year and
beating Wall Street's lofty expectations.
In comparison, Delta widened its loss and said its new Song unit,
which debuted on April 15, filled only about 70% of seats in the
second quarter.
"Why is Delta, which has a good reputation for customer service as a
business carrier's airline, competing head-to-head with JetBlue?"
said Alderman. "The issue with Song isn't even load factor, it's the
cost per available seat mile." Citing data from industry tracker The
Airline Monitor, Alderman pointed out that the cost per available
seat mile for JetBlue is 2.86 cents, compared with 4.31 cents per
available seat mile for Delta's Boeing 757 fleet. Ultimately, the
strong second-quarter results from low-cost carriers make experts
wonder how long network carriers can compete if business travelers
don't return to the skies.
"That's a 51% premium. Who cares about load factors?" Alderman
said. "How are you going to get from here to compete with JetBlue,
which Delta has said explicitly was the point of Song?"
Of all the earnings reports, JetBlue's was the strongest, said
William Alderman, president of Alderman & Co., a boutique aerospace
investment firm. JetBlue managed to boost profit, load factors and
margins, while flying more flights. "JetBlue was the biggest
surprise. I really thought they would see margin erosion as they
grew and was truly surprised they could scale up that fast without
any erosion to margins," Alderman said.
The New York-based carrier is a good example of how low-cost
carriers plan to gnaw away at the network carriers' business.
Because JetBlue can charge less for fares and still post a profit, a
rival like Delta, which just launched its low-cost Song Airlines
unit, is forced to lose money by matching JetBlue's cheap fares out
of John F. Kennedy Airport in New York in an attempt to keep market
share.
Using the low-cost model to outperform older stalwarts is nothing
new -- Southwest has been doing it for three decades -- but the
success and scope of the model's success has picked up steam
recently. JetBlue boosted capacity by nearly 70% over year-ago
levels in the second quarter, while load factor, or the percentage
of seats filled, came in at an industry high of 85%. The end result:
JetBlue's revenue was $245 million, up 64% over last year and
beating Wall Street's lofty expectations.
In comparison, Delta widened its loss and said its new Song unit,
which debuted on April 15, filled only about 70% of seats in the
second quarter.
"Why is Delta, which has a good reputation for customer service as a
business carrier's airline, competing head-to-head with JetBlue?"
said Alderman. "The issue with Song isn't even load factor, it's the
cost per available seat mile." Citing data from industry tracker The
Airline Monitor, Alderman pointed out that the cost per available
seat mile for JetBlue is 2.86 cents, compared with 4.31 cents per
available seat mile for Delta's Boeing 757 fleet. Ultimately, the
strong second-quarter results from low-cost carriers make experts
wonder how long network carriers can compete if business travelers
don't return to the skies.
"That's a 51% premium. Who cares about load factors?" Alderman
said. "How are you going to get from here to compete with JetBlue,
which Delta has said explicitly was the point of Song?"
AAplanesareold
Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
----------------
On 7/30/2003 12:12:23 PM Ch. 12 wrote:
...and those are not LCCs. Cutting out the travel agent is almost a set criterion of an LCC. Technology has replaced the travel agent.
----------------
On 7/30/2003 12:12:23 PM Ch. 12 wrote:
...and those are not LCCs. Cutting out the travel agent is almost a set criterion of an LCC. Technology has replaced the travel agent.
----------------
I'm aware of that. But travel agents could give Song a leg up on JetBlue. A revenue stream that's going to the legacy carriers (including Delta), may worth be looking into.
AAsplanes: OK, so you are a travel agent in BUF. Or maybe you do work for an airline planning department (yikes!). But you think that Song should refocus on being travel agent friendly? Can you explain how that would help? Everyone is shunning travel agents. The real need for travel agents was to help people navigate the mind boggling fare structures used by the majors. If you can get on a website and get the lowest fare in 5 minutes, why would you ever call an agent again? As someone has said, technology has made travel agents obsolete for airline reservations.
----------------
On 7/30/2003 3:51:19 PM AAplanesareold wrote:
I'm aware of that. But travel agents could give Song a leg up on JetBlue. A revenue stream that's going to the legacy carriers (including Delta), may worth be looking into.
----------------
And with that revenue stream comes an "expense stream". It is costlier than just the "commissions" to distribute through TAs and the LCCs have figured this out. That is actually what gives JetBlue a leg up on the competition.On 7/30/2003 3:51:19 PM AAplanesareold wrote:
----------------
On 7/30/2003 12:12:23 PM Ch. 12 wrote:
...and those are not LCCs. Cutting out the travel agent is almost a set criterion of an LCC. Technology has replaced the travel agent.
----------------
On 7/30/2003 12:12:23 PM Ch. 12 wrote:
...and those are not LCCs. Cutting out the travel agent is almost a set criterion of an LCC. Technology has replaced the travel agent.
----------------
I'm aware of that. But travel agents could give Song a leg up on JetBlue. A revenue stream that's going to the legacy carriers (including Delta), may worth be looking into.
----------------
AAplanesareold
Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
----------------
On 7/31/2003 8:13:21 AM Farley wrote:
AAsplanes: OK, so you are a travel agent in BUF. Or maybe you do work for an airline planning department (yikes!). But you think that Song should refocus on being travel agent friendly? Can you explain how that would help? Everyone is shunning travel agents. The real need for travel agents was to help people navigate the mind boggling fare structures used by the majors. If you can get on a website and get the lowest fare in 5 minutes, why would you ever call an agent again? As someone has said, technology has made travel agents obsolete for airline reservations.
----------------
On 7/31/2003 8:13:21 AM Farley wrote:
AAsplanes: OK, so you are a travel agent in BUF. Or maybe you do work for an airline planning department (yikes!). But you think that Song should refocus on being travel agent friendly? Can you explain how that would help? Everyone is shunning travel agents. The real need for travel agents was to help people navigate the mind boggling fare structures used by the majors. If you can get on a website and get the lowest fare in 5 minutes, why would you ever call an agent again? As someone has said, technology has made travel agents obsolete for airline reservations.
----------------
Not a travel agent, but I do work in planning for an airline. Airlines still get a substantial amount of revenue from travel agents (mine included). Also, not everyone has a credit card (which is needed to purchase anything over the internet) and some people just don't have computers. As time goes on, travel agents will be more hard to come by. No doubt about that. But there are thousands of travel agencies in the U.S. alone. Why not tap into that? Last but not least, travel agents can and do direct sales to airlines that pay commissions. I'm not saying to pay out zillions in commissions, but it's something that could be looked at by Song.
AAplanesareold
Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
----------------
On 7/31/2003 3:48:58 PM Farley wrote:
AAplanes,
no offense, but if you are in the planning dept. at some (god help them) anonymous airline how could you post some of the crap you've posted?
----------------
On 7/31/2003 3:48:58 PM Farley wrote:
AAplanes,
no offense, but if you are in the planning dept. at some (god help them) anonymous airline how could you post some of the crap you've posted?
----------------
I have access to a DSL line at work.
AAplanesareold
Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 91
- Reaction score
- 0
----------------
On 8/2/2003 9
24 AM Ch. 12 wrote:
Really...is there any value to this? I think Romper Room is on....you'd better run and catch it.
----------------
On 8/2/2003 9
24 AM Ch. 12 wrote: Really...is there any value to this? I think Romper Room is on....you'd better run and catch it.
----------------
I can't watch Romper Room, since you are hogging up the TV watching Sesame Street and Barney reruns!
