JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Lets be clear here: 3% Contribution is piss poor when compared to what the pilots and flight attendants got 3 years ago when the companies financial position was not nearly as strong as it is today.
Current financial position is everything when you are negotiating and we need to take advantage of that on this issue for sure.
Pilots = 16% Contribution
FA's = 9.9% Contribution for over age 55 for 5 years

There needs to be a contribution only, not a match, of at least 12% with no sunset.
That would take away the argument that not everyone puts into their 401K, let the company put it in for them, just like they do for the Pilots and FA's. Why are we the stepchildren of the airline?

Finally!!!!

Yes the AA 401k plan is pathetic.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I do want Ograc to know I am serious about Scope. I realize it is very important even to the hubs. As we all know most displaced workers do not quit, they go to the hubs.

Usually.

I chose to quit though.

You just never know what someone else is going to do or why.

 

[Koolcat]

Can't file an 1114 at this point.

This issue would need to be pursued in an Adversarial Proceeding but there has been no action in that case since 2014.

Issue is dead, no court will give the company relief when making billions in profit

 

[bob@las-AA]

Issue is dead, no court will give the company relief when making billions in profit

That's what was said in the first round of BK for AMR, "can't file BK because they got too much money in the bank".

 

[bob@las-AA]

Lets be clear here: 3% Contribution is piss poor when compared to what the pilots and flight attendants got 3 years ago when the companies financial position was not nearly as strong as it is today.
Current financial position is everything when you are negotiating and we need to take advantage of that on this issue for sure.
Pilots = 16% Contribution
FA's = 9.9% Contribution for over age 55 for 5 years

There needs to be a contribution only, not a match, of at least 12% with no sunset.
That would take away the argument that not everyone puts into their 401K, let the company put it in for them, just like they do for the Pilots and FA's. Why are we the stepchildren of the airline?

I suggest you speak for yourself only. Fleet is last in line when it comes to the soup kitchen hand outs, we will never get the fresh baked bread, vine-ripened tomatoes, and a glass of freshly squeezed grapefruit, or orange juice like the pilots and FAs. I prefer the match over the contribution, essentially the same thing, but with the match, you can put away $11296 per year and it only cost $5648. The membership has to come down to reality and realise that they have to fund their own retirement, like it or not.

 

[WeAAsles]

I suggest you speak for yourself only. Fleet is last in line when it comes to the soup kitchen hand outs, we will never get the fresh baked bread, vine-ripened tomatoes, and a glass of freshly squeezed grapefruit, or orange juice like the pilots and FAs. I prefer the match over the contribution, essentially the same thing, but with the match, you can put away $11296 per year and it only cost $5648. The membership has to come down to reality and realise that they have to fund their own retirement, like it or not.

Bob under an "employment contract" a total value compensation package can be set up that you essentially are funding your own retirement. We were before even with our Pension except the Company took responsibility if returns invested didn't pan out like they "may" have thought. (I'm not going to go in to AA underfunding since that's been covered to death already)

My compensation package is already funding my retirement through the fact I earn more than enough to hopefully make prudent investments.

The more they put into the back end perhaps the less I'll feel I need to put in from the front? Same chit either way though in my book if you are fiscally savvy.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Bob under an "employment contract" a total value compensation package can be set up that you essentially are funding your own retirement. We were before even with our Pension except the Company took responsibility if returns invested didn't pan out like they "may" have thought. (I'm not going to go in to AA underfunding since that's been covered to death already)

My compensation package is already funding my retirement through the fact I earn more than enough to hopefully make prudent investments.

The more they put into the back end perhaps the less I'll feel I need to put in from the front? Same chit either way though in my book if you are fiscally savvy.

I agree with you 100%, but the reality still remains, most but not all clerks with 25 years plus only started their 401s back when they first started the match, very sad.

 

[NYer]

That's what was said in the first round of BK for AMR, "can't file BK because they got too much money in the bank".

That was a false narrative because the money in the bank was from loans taken against aircraft and landing slots. It's like taking a $100,000 home equity loan, putting it in the bank and say you're $100,000 richer.

On the Match, it's a done deal in BK and an arbitration is a losing battle because the contractual triggers for the payout weren't met.

 

[gulfcoast1]

That was a false narrative because the money in the bank was from loans taken against aircraft and landing slots. It's like taking a $100,000 home equity loan, putting it in the bank and say you're $100,000 richer.

On the Match, it's a done deal in BK and an arbitration is a losing battle because the contractual triggers for the payout weren't met.

Koziatek spoke at a recent union meeting and he said it is not over. It could be wishful thinking but he sounded sure more attempts would be made to address it, but that it had to wait until the bankruptcy is officially finished. I thought I remembered something in the arbitrators decision along those lines also. I could be wrong about that part, but Koziatek said it is not over at least from the TWU perspective. It might be over, but I hope he is right and more attempts will be made. Or Weez can bring it up again....

 

[WeAAsles]

Koziatek spoke at a recent union meeting and he said it is not over. It could be wishful thinking but he sounded sure more attempts would be made to address it, but that it had to wait until the bankruptcy is officially finished. I thought I remembered something in the arbitrators decision along those lines also. I could be wrong about that part, but Koziatek said it is not over at least from the TWU perspective. It might be over, but I hope he is right and more attempts will be made. Or Weez can bring it up again....

The Prefunding Match issue is not over.

 

[AANOTOK]

Usually.

I chose to quit though.

You just never know what someone else is going to do or why.

Exactly what Doug said in a Town Hall. That being the case, Doug followed up by saying the prefunding
match WOULD be used to pay current retiree's medical. Someone quoted or mentioned Ed K.

The Prefunding Match issue is not over.

There's a huge difference in it "not being over" and a chance in hell of winning.

 

[NYer]

Koziatek spoke at a recent union meeting and he said it is not over. It could be wishful thinking but he sounded sure more attempts would be made to address it, but that it had to wait until the bankruptcy is officially finished. I thought I remembered something in the arbitrators decision along those lines also. I could be wrong about that part, but Koziatek said it is not over at least from the TWU perspective. It might be over, but I hope he is right and more attempts will be made. Or Weez can bring it up again....

They can bring it up, but there is no vehicle there to make a payout. The Trust which holds the funds is written so that those funds are for the exclusive use of the participants, which are the Retiree's, and therefore protected.

 

[NYer]

Exactly what Doug said in a Town Hall. That being the case, Doug followed up by saying the prefunding
match WOULD be used to pay current retiree's medical. Someone quoted or mentioned Ed K.

There's a huge difference in it "not being over" and a chance in hell of winning.

Unlike most others on these pages, I've read the language in the CBA, I've read the Trust, I've read the original Pre-funding documents and I've read the transcripts from the arbitration on the Match.

It's done. Some may want to argue and arbitrate but the Trust is protected and cannot be terminated by anyone other than the participants, so unless the Retiree decide to forgo coverage, the benefits will be there for them.

 

[gulfcoast1]

Unlike most others on these pages, I've read the language in the CBA, I've read the Trust, I've read the original Pre-funding documents and I've read the transcripts from the arbitration on the Match.

It's done. Some may want to argue and arbitrate but the Trust is protected and cannot be terminated by anyone other than the participants, so unless the Retiree decide to forgo coverage, the benefits will be there for them.

And what happens when they all reach 65 in the event there are funds left over? I am not making any predictions on chances of an outcome, but Koziatek, who was part of the arbitration said during the meeting and after, that all avenues for appealing or asking to look into it again have not been exhausted. He was very clear. Now that could change like many other things have, but he was specifically asked twice.

It sounds like Weez may have some more information? Why do you say it is not over? I know you were not at the same meeting I was at.

 

[conehead777]

And what happens when they all reach 65 in the event there are funds left over? I am not making any predictions on chances of an outcome, but Koziatek, who was part of the arbitration said during the meeting and after, that all avenues for appealing or asking to look into it again have not been exhausted. He was very clear. Now that could change like many other things have, but he was specifically asked twice.

It sounds like Weez may have some more information? Why do you say it is not over? I know you were not at the same meeting I was at.

lets see twu said we would get a vote on association did not happen did it. they have spread nothing but false truths in my 32 years at aa. so don't hold your breath on what ed k says.