JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Worldport]

Yea I just looked. Thought it used to be in College Point? But we're going back 20 years ago. I could be wrong and maybe they were always there?

Getting back on topic someone said the negotiators got improvements on 17 articles. Lets pick a couple and discuss how they may be improved I'll start Bulletin boards do you think they will go with the standard cork or some fancy composite?

 

[Worldport]

He doesnt understand. Everyone in business use professions with the negotiation skillset strategies. Our union is one of a few who claim we dont need professionals because their agcs and local presidents will "fix it'.
Obviously, our contracts do not support weassles support of using non professionals who are mostly highly uneducated as well. Weassles prolly knows this but he supports the establishment with iam because they accept his calls im sure and make him feel important.

regards,

I think the only thing Weez is guilty of is being optimistic looking at the glass half full. He doesn't know about the mistakes they made in our previous contracts remember that year  the contract said we were getting a raise and it was a mistake things like that CSA got a snap back we didn't

 

[Tim Nelson]

I think the only thing Weez is guilty of is being optimistic looking at the glass half full. He doesn't know about the mistakes they made in our previous contracts remember that year  the contract said we were getting a raise and it was a mistake things like that CSA got a snap back we didn't

several things in our contract, and other contracts, show that our negotiators fall short.

regards,

 

[WeAAsles]

He doesnt understand. Everyone in business use professions with the negotiation skillset strategies. Our union is one of a few who claim we dont need professionals because their agcs and local presidents will "fix it'.
Obviously, our contracts do not support weassles support of using non professionals who are mostly highly uneducated as well. Weassles prolly knows this but he supports the establishment with iam because they accept his calls im sure and make him feel important.
regards,

I'll bet you $10.00 that you're not smart enough to pull up the LM2's for both Unions and see all the Law groups that they pay in to and what they're used for by looking up their firms specialty?

I even looked at your old LM2 back when you were actually important enough to have one. $97,000 if I remember correctly? "Gone like a fart in the wind"

 

[WeAAsles]

I think the only thing Weez is guilty of is being optimistic looking at the glass half full. He doesn't know about the mistakes they made in our previous contracts remember that year  the contract said we were getting a raise and it was a mistake things like that CSA got a snap back we didn't

Yes I have read about it actually. CWA at that time did dramatically better (BUT) I'm curious? When did the agents organize? What year?

You guys waited until 1995 after you had been totally cremated to finally say "We need to get some representation"

Better late than never obviously and absolutely a smarter timing then PMCAL ramp and PMAA Agents. And don't get me started again talking about Delta. Slow boil death going on there.

(Edit) Here it is. Actually they voted in the CWA after you guys did. Reaction to decimation there too I guess. Wonder why they were able to negotiate a snap back and you guys weren't?

http://envoyagents.org/app/uploads/2015/02/CWAHistory.pdf

 

[ograc]

Contract negotiations in this industry, for all represented groups, has been  a challenge for years on both the LUS and AA side to say the least. Financial status of both carriers have dictated the tone of negotiations. Any discussion or finger pointing, on which labor representative on the said properties, did better or worse is counter productive to obtaining improvements for the collective group, going forward. There are regrets and hopefully lessons learned from all parties. Hope we can focus on future potential rather than past shortcomings. For the Common Good.

 

[WeAAsles]

Contract negotiations in this industry, for all represented groups, has been  a challenge for years on both the LUS and AA side to say the least. Financial status of both carriers have dictated the tone of negotiations. Any discussion or finger pointing, on which labor representative on the said properties, did better or worse is counter productive to obtaining improvements for the collective group, going forward. There are regrets and hopefully lessons learned from all parties. Hope we can focus on future potential rather than past shortcomings. For the Common Good.

Nice comment and absolutely true. To every negotiating session for every airline there is a unique and different story to tell. But the difference between myself and some others out there cargo is that I want to know and understand those stories for the sake of truth.

When someone doesn't understand the story or flat out lies about them, they stab someone who was actually there in the heart. Plus from learning all the stories both good and bad we're not doomed to repeat ourselves. We just might find new angles that were never thought of before?

 

[ograc]

Cargo the floor is always open for discussion. We are discussing my friend. The leverage we have is that you cannot touch my airplane with an AA call sign on it until we agree on a contract with the airline that takes us from two unique and separate groups to one whole group. The leverage we have is in how much revenue the company is losing with each day that we aren't integrated and they can begin tailoring their operations to fully capitalize on the merger.

And our contracts end in 2018 but relax. We'll probably have a deal by either the end of the summer or October at the latest would be my guess? The company is not going to grab their ball and go home and neither one of the Unions are really going to be stupid enough to let them either.

 
True. The leverage we have is, as long as there is separation of metal below wing, the company may fall short of projected profits, as originally presented to the shareholders, in this merger agreement. Outside of that, the company is under no legal obligation, in JCBA talks, to reach an agreement. Under Section 6 negotiations, the fail switch for the union, is to legally withdrawal services (Strike). Even with Fleet... a huge disruption to operational integrity and potential profit. Is it a stretch, given these circumstances, the company would wait for formal Section 6 negotiations, if they cannot achieve the necessary concessions in JCBA talks? They have projected "synergies" to be gained by combining the work groups. Promises made to the shareholders and Wall Street in their bankruptcy plan presented to the Judge. This is why, IMO, members should not be disappointed when the company is not willing to give back all that has been taken. Know Thy Enemy!  
 

 

[WeAAsles]

True. The leverage we have is, as long as there is separation of metal below wing, the company may fall short of projected profits, as originally presented to the shareholders, in this merger agreement. Outside of that, the company is under no legal obligation, in JCBA talks, to reach an agreement. Under Section 6 negotiations, the fail switch for the union, is to legally withdrawal services (Strike). Even with Fleet... a huge disruption to operational integrity and potential profit. Is it a stretch, given these circumstances, the company would wait for formal Section 6 negotiations, if they cannot achieve the necessary concessions in JCBA talks? They have projected "synergies" to be gained by combining the work groups. Promises made to the shareholders and Wall Street in their bankruptcy plan presented to the Judge. This is why, IMO, members should not be disappointed when the company is not willing to give back all that has been taken. Know Thy Enemy!

Big business and they're pocket Politicians are never going to allow us to strike cargo. We have to learn to face that absolute reality and adapt. Section 6 again is a farce for the airline worker today.

There is no real legal remedy for us to strike a deal that will be allowed.

Again when was the last major airline strike? Even through all the concessions we kept chugging along.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'll bet you $10.00 that you're not smart enough to pull up the LM2's for both Unions and see all the Law groups that they pay in to and what they're used for by looking up their firms specialty?
I even looked at your old LM2 back when you were actually important enough to have one. $97,000 if I remember correctly? "Gone like a fart in the wind"

of course they have attorneys? So what?
The law firm that the district used were used mostly to read over and assist agcs in arbitration preparation, and utilized to do TA language readovers. As far as I know, the IAM141 has never hired a professional negotiator but Ive always insisted that they should. The profession of negotiations is different from the profession of Law. Jerry Glass is a great professional negotiator that tosses peeps like 700 left and right. He plays with our negotiators who simply are not educated nor smart enuf to process much.

Not sure if Glass has a law degree as well, but he isnt even among the best in the profession. Many negotiate for unions.

regards,

 

[700UW]

Glass is not a lawyer.

And keep up the lies, Glass never played M&R.

Didn't see you in the room.

 

[WeAAsles]

of course they have attorneys? So what?
The law firm that the district used were used mostly to read over and assist agcs in arbitration preparation, and utilized to do TA language readovers. As far as I know, the IAM141 has never hired a professional negotiator but Ive always insisted that they should. The profession of negotiations is different from the profession of Law. Jerry Glass is a great professional negotiator that tosses peeps like 700 left and right. He plays with our negotiators who simply are not educated nor smart enuf to process much.
Not sure if Glass has a law degree as well, but he isnt even among the best in the profession. Many negotiate for unions.
regards,

I think they should hire you. I mean look at your track record. You're a real winner. You could make a mean professional negotiator. New laundry baskets for everyone.

Let me be very clear. Professional negotiators. The stupidest idea you've brought up yet since I ever heard of you. Rock solid dumb idea. Completely and totally. Unequivocally. Period. You took the cake.

Am I clear enough for you?

 

[Worldport]

I think they should hire you. I mean look at your track record. You're a real winner. You could make a mean professional negotiator. New laundry baskets for everyone.

Let me be very clear. Professional negotiators. The stupidest idea you've brought up yet since I ever heard of you. Rock solid dumb idea. Completely and totally. Unequivocally. Period. You took the cake.

Am I clear enough for you?

Why is the company using one are they totally unequivocally  stupid too? Why does the company bother to hire one I'm sure they have managers just as smart as baggage handlers who could negotiate 

 

[Tim Nelson]

I think they should hire you. I mean look at your track record. You're a real winner. You could make a mean professional negotiator. New laundry baskets for everyone.
Let me be very clear. Professional negotiators. The stupidest idea you've brought up yet since I ever heard of you. Rock solid dumb idea. Completely and totally. Unequivocally. Period. You took the cake.
Am I clear enough for you?

nah, it isnt a dumb idea to negotiate with someone trained and experienced. One thing Trump says that I really like is that he realizes politicians are awful negotiators. I agree with him.

Not sure why you always make things personal as Im not suggesting Im a professional negotiator. The difference is that I realize we have to have professionals, and you would rather have stud negotiators as 700.

700 still takes credit for getting an awful bankrupt contract that eliminated almost everything, including scorching his entire line utility.

regards,

 

[WeAAsles]

Why is the company using one are they totally unequivocally  stupid too? Why does the company bother to hire one I'm sure they have managers just as smart as baggage handlers who could negotiate

They do have AA managers negotiating. Actually those are the main negotiators for the company. Remember the other day I even mentioned one of them.

And those managers are well versed in our contract just like our Presidents and AGC's are as well.

If we had Lawyers negotiating our contracts with all its little intricacies, nuances and intent the company managers would eat them alive. After our Presidents read what they brought back they would probably have to start all over again?

And God help us if we actually allowed them to TA Articles in any type of agreement for the start of negotiations. I can only imagine what we would be voting on?

Since maybe you guys both don't trust your IAM negotiators, then go look at the LM2's for the TWU and see the firms they use and what their credentials are.

All I know is I have 12 individual minds with all the years of experience they've been dealing with contracts, 2 separate Legal firm advisors for both Unions and however many Labor professionals and economists they've brought in? The TWU Negotiators had their own training and part of that was with Harry Lombardo himself and then they joined with the IAM at their Winpinsinger center for even more drilling.

It sounded to me more like they were training for an Olympic Decathlon than negotiating a Labor contract.

Now honestly I'm starting to get tired of this subject. Everyone has the same ability I do to pick up a phone and ask these guys questions. None of their numbers are that difficult to get. The IAM AGC numbers are easy as sin. And the first time I ever called any of them they answered their own phones. No secretaries.

Right now they might be a little busy though and not a great time to distract them.