JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[bob@las-AA]

3 at each end, or 3 total?

Total.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Oh forgot to mention we went down from 5 to 4 because of the Powerstow belt. Sorry about the loss of a man (moved to other areas of the operation) but the Powerstow is the greatest thing to ever come to our job.

Before it my back and shoulders had there better days. Now if the CC tells me 130 in the back I just shrug my shoulders and say, ok.

Got to tell ya weez you cant ignore that stow! It may be the Rube Goldberg way of downloading but it is the answer to the moving carpet.

The weez with his "Master Stacker License", the smart guy with less work.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

HA HA HA...... OMG that is rich coming from you.

Speaking of being forced to subsidize the cost of other's medical insurance, where was your outrage when the liberals were pushing Obamacare? Your double standard is showing.

Let me be very clear. Part timers do not subsidize your medical costs just because they pay more. What they pay does not exceed or even meet the actual insurance cost, so how can they be subsidizing you? In fact the company is the one doing the subsidizing. They just subsidize less for a part timer than a full timer.

A part timer subsidizes nothing.

You are telling a lie trying to push an agenda.

A pattern with you.

Just so you know. I DO NOT read you. But again I pop on and there you are ready to be the typical nuisance that can't contain yourself as usual.

Just exposing a manipulator using a false narrative to spew propaganda. You have stated part time employees subsidize full time employees and that is an outright lie.

Why should full time employees further subsidize part time employee insurance beyond what American Airlines already does (which is what you are pushing)?

Trying to con career people into "sharing the load" by taking a hit in the pocketbook in the name of UNIONism is nothing less than an attack on the membership by someone pushing a socialist agenda to the detriment of his coworkers.

Obamacare failed miserably and now you are trying to sell act two to your UNION brothers and sisters.

As 700 used to say "This is a message board" but if this was my private property I would have you arrested for trespassing (You don't work with us and NEVER will again) and I would prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.

Sounds like you need a safe place, a cry room, and a diaper pin.

Who are you to say I will never work for American Airlines again?

In other words I still consider you pure Garbage.

You hate me because I show people your true colors.

Garbage is someone trying to con his fellow man out of what he earned in an attempt to push a political agenda in the name of UNIONism.

By the way making it a point to notify me you DO NOT read me while replying to my post....... classic.

 

[WeAAsles]

Got to tell ya weez you cant ignore that stow! It may be the Rube Goldberg way of downloading but it is the answer to the moving carpet.

The weez with his "Master Stacker License", the smart guy with less work.

There was nothing anyone could do to stop the carpets when they were put in and we lost jobs because of it. When they took it out we did gain back some people but injuries went way up. We were using little dollies on some gates (Our own creative solution) but the company didn't want us using them. In MIA we told them to take a flying leap. Trying to throw a 70lb bag 30 feet (737 back belly) is ridiculous. Shoulders were popping out systemwide.

The Powerstow remedies that situation not to mention no added weight to the aircraft.

We can't fight the technology if our Union doesn't gain "language" to protect us having a job if they bring it in. How many jobs have agents lost to those self serve kiosks?

 

[Kev3188]

He means 3 total. In MIA we're down to 4 man crews. I'm the back belly guy. Usually the crew will dump the front first while I water the plane, bring up escorts and set up the huff and headset. Then I'll dump out the back if there are bags.

If it's a domestic flight they'll send out bag runners for the transfers. If the flight is extremely heavy we'll usually get an assist guy or two to help with the turn.

It works fine and I don't feel like we're busting our nuts.

A 4 man team here (including the lead) is a luxury.

Yesterday, the assigned crew for one of my flights was... me...

What's odd about the use of Managers vs. Crew Chiefs would be how US could be divided be the old East vs. the old West. The old West stations used more managers and given the relatively inexperienced work force (due to high turn over rates) it wasn't uncommon to see Leads with less than a year of experience on the ramp, while the East had more experienced crews and Leads and less Managers. Over time the West side started to model itself more along the East, but make no mistake about it, the Union was MUCH stronger on the East side and worked strictly by the book and the Leads didn't take nearly as much Management crap. It was refreshing to see the PHL transfers becoming almost insolent whenever a Manager would bark orders. It looks as if AA wants to raise bar of independence from Management, but I doubt the Fort Worth boys will give up that control in the contract.

I have no doubt that in the event of furlough, Management would very much desire to rid itself of topped-out persons by making a transfer as difficult, as narrow, and as restrictive as possible. Moving allowance? Bumping privileges? 10-years of recall rights? Retaining seniority? Nothing good for the Company to liberalize any of those items in the contract, but rather offer a pittance in moving allowance, some goofy "juniority" after systemwide open full-time positions have been exhausted, 90-day expiration on recall rights (yeah, US had that after its bankruptcy contract), and lose seniority on a day-for-day basis as with the old AA contracts... that's what Management will have as its objectives.

I have no doubt that the C-Suites at all the carriers are trying to figure out ways to get us to do the seniority cleansing for them...

 

[WeAAsles]

A 4 man team here (including the lead) is a luxury.

Yesterday, the assigned crew for one of my flights was... me..



...

You didn't actually try to load or unload a plane by yourself did you?

Hub work is different than small Station work. Except for an end of the night terminator, all of our flights are mostly minimum ground time turns. If they tried to lower our manpower on those turns it's just not going to happen in the time they want.

Here: The Local driver has to load and bring in the bags and there are people to dump those bags in inbound claim. (Where they moved some of the lost line jobs because of the Stow) So he comes right back to the gate to start the outbound load. We also have lots of transfer bags on Domestic flights so why a team shows up to move them. An MCO inbound for example could have up to 5 separate drivers.

With the Stow we do one belly at a time. Usually the Cheif will load the lighter belly first (30 bags and lock it up) and then do the other belly. The other belly guy who's done goes by the chute and waits for gate bags. (LGA flights get tons) We then lock up 10 minutes prior to departure.

I know it sounds like we have a lot of people to perform the work but it's actually pretty efficient and keeps those DOT numbers looking good.

 

[Kev3188]

Lol. No, I didn't.

Our turns here are also mostly scheduled for minimum ground time as well. Not sure what it is at AA, but at DL, that means :40 for an MD88/90 or A319/320.

 

[WeAAsles]

What's odd about the use of Managers vs. Crew Chiefs would be how US could be divided be the old East vs. the old West. The old West stations used more managers and given the relatively inexperienced work force (due to high turn over rates) it wasn't uncommon to see Leads with less than a year of experience on the ramp, while the East had more experienced crews and Leads and less Managers. Over time the West side started to model itself more along the East, but make no mistake about it, the Union was MUCH stronger on the East side and worked strictly by the book and the Leads didn't take nearly as much Management crap. It was refreshing to see the PHL transfers becoming almost insolent whenever a Manager would bark orders. It looks as if AA wants to raise bar of independence from Management, but I doubt the Fort Worth boys will give up that control in the contract.

I have no doubt that in the event of furlough, Management would very much desire to rid itself of topped-out persons by making a transfer as difficult, as narrow, and as restrictive as possible. Moving allowance? Bumping privileges? 10-years of recall rights? Retaining seniority? Nothing good for the Company to liberalize any of those items in the contract, but rather offer a pittance in moving allowance, some goofy "juniority" after systemwide open full-time positions have been exhausted, 90-day expiration on recall rights (yeah, US had that after its bankruptcy contract), and lose seniority on a day-for-day basis as with the old AA contracts... that's what Management will have as its objectives.

And the reason why I decided a long time ago to move and work in Hubs. Here in MIA I have a cushion of almost 1000 FT below me and around 800 (almost all) PT. A lot more security flowing on the ocean in a Liner rather than a skiff.

My current crew actually has a guy on it that just came back from a 6 year Street layoff from SJU. He transferred back in. And last year met a guy who came in just before his 10 year clock expired. I think it was from closed CLE? People were giving him crap because he had no clue what he was doing but I told them give the guy a break. He essentially was a new hire.

If management received their "objectives" they would get tons of guys that just wouldn't bother making an incredibly tough choice if their station closed and they'd be out. It's ALL about numbers to these companies, not people.

I just hope what I eventually read on this issue when we have a JCBA doesn't massively disappoint? The CWA agents had a very tricky "but you have to do this" language agreed to in their contract that wasn't even easy for me to understand. And I'm pretty smart. It came with lots of bear traps.

 

[WeAAsles]

Lol. No, I didn't.

Our turns here are also mostly scheduled for minimum ground time as well. Not sure what it is at AA, but at DL, that means :40 for an MD88/90 or A319/320.

Our turns have more time than that. But it's because they come in and go out full a lot.

45 minutes wouldn't cut it even if we did the ground work they couldn't deplane and reboard that fast.

They do try to manipulate you to rush though. If the flight is late to the gate we have a clock staring at us. They never change the time to the real ground time until its close to the original scheduled out time. It's a psychological game they play.

But (because we're a good team) we do try to get it done close to the original out time just in case they can get it closer to back on schedule. Something I don't think the company realizes we do because we do care about our jobs and the operation (And gasp, the passengers)

 

[NYer]

My opinion (and it's free) if you are Part time with your name on a list wanting to go Full time, you should be afforded Full time health benefits. If you are Part time with no desire to upgrade, you should pay a different rate. Most I would say (not all) are Part time for the simple fact the have another (usually Full time) job. If my rates would go down because a career Part time employee had to pay more, I would have no problem with it. Let their Full time employer provide their insurance if they don't like the rates they are offered, and yes, give them the option of no coverage via AA.

If there are Members in a certain status contributing less to their medical than another group under a different status, it may give the Company the advantage and it could create a situation in which there is an incentive created to create a certain amount of Members in a certain status since it would be financially beneficial to have some contribute more, which allows the Company to contribute less.

Also, if some are allowed to opt out completely, especially the younger crowd, the rates for the rest us will most assuredly go up and it could create a situation where there is more being paid out of the insurance than there is coming back in.

Therefore, it is beneficial for everyone to have as many of us pay into the system at the same rates than it is to have a different rates and optional participation.

 

[Albert]

I don't want any of us to pay a higher cost for medical if WE don't have to. Just don't want to be "possibly" held hostage because of it either.

Held hostage? what do you think this new contract will bring you, 55 cents differential ? One of the negotiators implied they are holding out for more holidays, you want the to give in now you won't even get that

 

[bob@las-AA]

If there are Members in a certain status contributing less to their medical than another group under a different status, it may give the Company the advantage and it could create a situation in which there is an incentive created to create a certain amount of Members in a certain status since it would be financially beneficial to have some contribute more, which allows the Company to contribute less.

Also, if some are allowed to opt out completely, especially the younger crowd, the rates for the rest us will most assuredly go up and it could create a situation where there is more being paid out of the insurance than there is coming back in.

Therefore, it is beneficial for everyone to have as many of us pay into the system at the same rates than it is to have a different rates and optional participation.

This is the area that I think the company has found a way to make everyone who is employed at AA contribute. It's with the CS policy. If the company forces everyone to work their hours, everyone pays their fair share. If a part-timer only works 10 of the 20 hours a week, he or she still gets the full benefit of medical for only working 10 or half hours. I don't have a problem with part-timers paying double for med.

 

[Albert]

If there are Members in a certain status contributing less to their medical than another group under a different status, it may give the Company the advantage and it could create a situation in which there is an incentive created to create a certain amount of Members in a certain status since it would be financially beneficial to have some contribute more, which allows the Company to contribute less.

Also, if some are allowed to opt out completely, especially the younger crowd, the rates for the rest us will most assuredly go up and it could create a situation where there is more being paid out of the insurance than there is coming back in.

Therefore, it is beneficial for everyone to have as many of us pay into the system at the same rates than it is to have a different rates and optional participation.[/QUOT

 

[bob@las-AA]

Weez !
I think we should have more people from different stations on here what do ya think?
I may start a little project in getting more involved in this forum and member involvement.

 

[Albert]

Our turns have more time than that. But it's because they come in and go out full a lot.

45 minutes wouldn't cut it even if we did the ground work they couldn't deplane and reboard that fast.

They do try to manipulate you to rush though. If the flight is late to the gate we have a clock staring at us. They never change the time to the real ground time until its close to the original scheduled out time. It's a psychological game they play.

But (because we're a good team) we do try to get it done close to the original out time just in case they can get it closer to back on schedule. Something I don't think the company realizes we do because we do care about our jobs and the operation (And gasp, the passengers)

Weez why are you posting this ?Now I'm going to get about five pms telling me you're full of chit and that you miss half the flights