JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[robbedagain]

The AA folks I work with here would rather have our LUS health insurance

 

[WeAAsles]

I haven't been on here much lately but want to say a few things. Did anyone see that the pilots want to renegotiate their contract. We all know the fa's were not happy with their deal and pax service has buyers remorse now. The pilots and fa's took binding arbitration which made them rush into deals they aren't happy with, which btw, included the LAA insurance. Pax service got the LAA insurance as well.

When DP stated he wanted to give everyone top pay he meant it, what nobody realized was that everything else would be cost neutral or worse. Look at the town halls, he states that some things may not be the same or as good but the pay will be above the industry. He never states that anyone will have an industry leading contract overall.

Fleet and Maintenance are in there fighting a battle that no other group took the time to do. We constantly hear, "nobody on the property has that." We are working hard together to fight for more than just money. Have we had our struggles, hell yes!! I will continue to fight on behalf of all the Fleet employees at the new AA no matter how frustrated I get. I am tired of jumping on a plane, and I will add my wife is too, to come back without a ta on articles. But, this is what has to be done to achieve our goals.

P. Rez

Concerns:

"Recognition of Rights and Compliance – The company wants to reserve the right to direct or assign our work under certain circumstances, without the direction of a Crew Chief/Lead."

On the TWU side of the fence this is not something we want to entertain. Our CSM's are young and inexperienced at how the operation works. Giving them latitude to direct the workforce will create operational issues and cause lot's of friction in having to deal in any direct relations with them.

I honestly hear system-wide issues on the IAM side of your members being weak and afraid in the operation and I'm 100% positive it's because of two reasons. No direct full blown Union Local presence in station and Management seeming to have almost free reign in directing the workforce. Not to mention of course having "Leads" over seasoned Crew Chiefs giving us direction.

If the way we currently do it on the TWU side is modified many members are going to be put at risk when they start to tell the 1 year 23 YO CSM's to F off. And it IS going to happen.

"Part-Time – The company wants to base the part-time ratio on the total number of fleet service employees versus the total number of full-time employees."

If you insist and are successful at keeping your medical plans with it's ridiculous injustice of having PT members pay double to subsidize FT (Me) members you are creating your own issues as to why the Company will want as many PT members as they can fill into the bucket. You've created the motivation for management to always want to be at the max cap even if the operation would be better served with FT members.

By far not saying that maybe even without the PT BS language you might not still have a superior medical but I hope you are aware again that you may be creating your own issues for confrontation if the company knows you will insist on keeping your plans. And I'm sorry P. Rez but I'm just being the messenger here again but on the TWU members side it's universally believed that we're being held hostage because of the medical plan issue. I haven't spoken to even one single member that doesn't believe otherwise.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

 

[WeAAsles]

The AA folks I work with here would rather have our LUS health insurance

Correct me if I'm wrong. From how i understood it when the medical plans you currently enjoy were presented to US management they agreed to those costs and merely matched the price but remained self funded?

Not leaving out that what you currently enjoy again is given to you off the shoulders of your PT Brothers and Sisters, without that your costs would be higher. "If" perhaps we were ALL (Everyone at AA) a part of the same plans the costs for everyone, Management, Pilots, FA's, Association members, Etc might actually wind up being low enough for EVERYONE to enjoy?

 

[WeAAsles]

A mechanic posted this on a Facebook thread and since they TA'd "Reduction in Force" it could be true.

Apparently if you are layed off you will now be able to use your seniority to bump anywhere in the system where you have a Junior member beat? (No more Juniority)

But you will no longer have recall rights back to your former Station. If you want to return you will have to put in a transfer and wait until you come up by seniority against the entire system?

Also after a period of time once you move into a different classification (3 or 6 months) you will no longer have any built up time in your former classification? In other words if a FSC becomes a Mechanic after the time has passed you can never return.

"If" true, again "If" just wondering what people think about this?

 

[Albert]

Concerns:

"Recognition of Rights and Compliance – The company wants to reserve the right to direct or assign our work under certain circumstances, without the direction of a Crew Chief/Lead."

On the TWU side of the fence this is not something we want to entertain. Our CSM's are young and inexperienced at how the operation works. Giving them latitude to direct the workforce will create operational issues and cause lot's of friction in having to deal in any direct relations with them.

I honestly hear system-wide issues on the IAM side of your members being weak and afraid in the operation and I'm 100% positive it's because of two reasons. No direct full blown Union Local presence in station and Management seeming to have almost free reign in directing the workforce. Not to mention of course having "Leads" over seasoned Crew Chiefs giving us direction.

If the way we currently do it on the TWU side is modified many members are going to be put at risk when they start to tell the 1 year 23 YO CSM's to F off. And it IS going to happen.

"Part-Time – The company wants to base the part-time ratio on the total number of fleet service employees versus the total number of full-time employees."

If you insist and are successful at keeping your medical plans with it's ridiculous injustice of having PT members pay double to subsidize FT (Me) members you are creating your own issues as to why the Company will want as many PT members as they can fill into the bucket. You've created the motivation for management to always want to be at the max cap even if the operation would be better served with FT members.

By far not saying that maybe even without the PT BS language you might not still have a superior medical but I hope you are aware again that you may be creating your own issues for confrontation if the company knows you will insist on keeping your plans. And I'm sorry P. Rez but I'm just being the messenger here again but on the TWU members side it's universally believed that we're being held hostage because of the medical plan issue. I haven't spoken to even one single member that doesn't believe otherwise.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

You lost me on "Crew chief" "lead" same animal different name. Some of our leads have 35, 40 years with the company. the difference I see LAA is more "Union" than LUS. My opinion is you are more pampered than we are. That's not a criticism if you can get away with it why not

 

[Kev3188]

Concerns:

"Recognition of Rights and Compliance – The company wants to reserve the right to direct or assign our work under certain circumstances, without the direction of a Crew Chief/Lead."

On the TWU side of the fence this is not something we want to entertain. Our CSM's are young and inexperienced at how the operation works. Giving them latitude to direct the workforce will create operational issues and cause lot's of friction in having to deal in any direct relations with them.

I honestly hear system-wide issues on the IAM side of your members being weak and afraid in the operation and I'm 100% positive it's because of two reasons. No direct full blown Union Local presence in station and Management seeming to have almost free reign in directing the workforce. Not to mention of course having "Leads" over seasoned Crew Chiefs giving us direction.

If the way we currently do it on the TWU side is modified many members are going to be put at risk when they start to tell the 1 year 23 YO CSM's to F off. And it IS going to happen.

I've seen it both ways. Trust me, the less management meddling in leading/directing of work, the better.

 

[WeAAsles]

You lost me on "Crew chief" "lead" same animal different name. Some of our leads have 35, 40 years with the company. the difference I see LAA is more "Union" than LUS. My opinion is you are more pampered than we are. That's not a criticism if you can get away with it why not

I feel like you're always lurking out there waiting for me to write something. Oh well.

Pampered in comparison to you? Perhaps? We have been a part of a Union mentality and have had a contract that was built up over 70 years.

Maybe it's a philosophical difference but I find your guys to cow toe to management far more than I'm used to or want to try and adapt to.

From what I understand your leads are more gophers than actually steer the ship? They're given the load plan from a central location (Possibly a manager) then go and inform the crew which they're a part of how to load the aircraft and scurry that finished product back to the manager (Or load guy)

If I'm right then management is actually the Captain of the ship and why your leads (Or gophers) are paid less than our CC's?

Personally under the TWU structure we don't like to contribute to the conditions that the Company will swell management ranks over those of rank and file. And emphasis we can create to have less of them and more of us is the preferable route.

You yourself prove my case. You have more work and less people than we do in LGA. (Less Union jobs)

 

[WeAAsles]

And Al I think our Crew Chiefs should have far more responsibilities rather than less. If our CC's were required to submit their own delay reports there would be even less need for management bobble heads to be breathing down our necks and the company could get rid of more of them.

In the TWU we like to say it's the difference between the "Workers and the Watchers"

We don't need Watchers.

 

[WeAAsles]

I've seen it both ways. Trust me, the less management meddling in leading/directing of work, the better.

This.

 

[WeAAsles]

The company pays a new hire CSM about $50,000 to start. Raise the pay of a CC by $1.00 per hour and they can dump a bunch of the Watchers.

But they like having the Watchers around for the intimidation factor they bring to keeping the flow of the operation humming.

My CC this bid was over on the side last bid where they shared a big room with the US peeps. He witnessed that intimidation factor first hand. He was told by US guys a few times "You can't do this, you can't do that" while they scurried to the whim of the managers. (Sorry but it's a fact)

One day a manager wanted to have a meeting with those guys. She came in and turned off the TV. My CC got up and turned it back on. Management and those workers "tried" to get on his arse. He said this is our breakroom. You want to have a meeting you can go outside.

In the TWU we treat management with the same respect they give us and don't like the lines being blurred.

 

[Albert]

I feel like you're always lurking out there waiting for me to write something. Oh well.

Pampered in comparison to you? Perhaps? We have been a part of a Union mentality and have had a contract that was built up over 70 years.

Maybe it's a philosophical difference but I find your guys to cow toe to management far more than I'm used to or want to try and adapt to.

From what I understand your leads are more gophers than actually steer the ship? They're given the load plan from a central location (Possibly a manager) then go and inform the crew which they're a part of how to load the aircraft and scurry that finished product back to the manager (Or load guy)

If I'm right then management is actually the Captain of the ship and why your leads (Or gophers) are paid less than our CC's?

Personally under the TWU structure we don't like to contribute to the conditions that the Company will swell management ranks over those of rank and file. And emphasis we can create to have less of them and more of us is the preferable route.

You yourself prove my case. You have more work and less people than we do in LGA. (Less Union jobs)

Ironically the Leads lost a lot of their powers when the union came in. They are can longer discipline an agent who chronically shows up late to a flight etc. In many cases a lead plans our bids(a job AA is trying to take away). To give you an idea under AA we now have more managers with 40 flights a day then we did under US when we had 200.You know I think all unions are the same I'm cynical because I have seen what they have done but what you guys gave up ( in not sure 2008?) when you were not in bankruptcy is mind boggling to me, You guys have a contract company hand out wands a gloves for god sake

 

[Albert]

I've seen it both ways. Trust me, the less management meddling in leading/directing of work, the better.

Funny you say that I can't remember last time I saw a DL manager walk through the bag room. The leads pretty much run the show, the way we at LUS used to before the union

 

[WeAAsles]

Ironically the Leads lost a lot of their powers when the union came in. They are can longer discipline an agent who chronically shows up late to a flight etc. In many cases a lead plans our bids(a job AA is trying to take away). To give you an idea under AA we now have more managers with 40 flights a day then we did under US when we had 200.You know I think all unions are the same I'm cynical because I have seen what they have done but what you guys gave up ( in not sure 2008?) when you were not in bankruptcy is mind boggling to me, You guys have a contract company hand out wands a gloves for god sake

Good points. But it "could" be that your perspective is only coming from an East Coast mentality where Unions and Workers rights and empowerment are much more prevalent than they are in the rest of the Country?

Here's a link to a reminder why your group voted to bring in a Union in the first place.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/19...49_1_machinists-service-workers-fleet-service

Al the Union philosophy or mindset really doesn't translate as well outside of my experience in LGA since I've worked in two other cities. MIA is far better than DFW for instance but in some other locations on both sides I hear it's a complete disaster.

Did you ever consider that since you were only exposed to Union in 1995 that maybe when you hired on it wasn't instilled in you? When I hired on that year I was taught how it worked from guys who had hired on in the 60's and 70's. LGA didn't play any games in letting us know how things worked.

As far as our concessions of 03 and it will be debated all the way till the last one of us is in the grave. Either way we would have lost (Like you did twice) Concede or have our nuts cut off (Pension) I'll have $1500.00 a month when I retire where I would have had about $50.00 a month if the company had thrown it on the PBGC 10 years earlier. (Pick your poison)

BTW I asked Tim Nelson this before. Yea right now you have more items than I do in your contract. But would you like to compare the last 20 years and see who stacked up better between two topped out employees who hired on the same year as you did? Or compare your whole career to that guy? I'm sure you know who comes out on top.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW Al before the merger happened was your Top out in the $17 or $19 range? I forget?

Without the merger you would still be at those wages and we would be in the $24 range.

You almost immediately came up to our wages and now are making $30.17 per hour.

A dramatic over 50% increase from where you started from. Let's not forget we're ALL benefiting from this merger and frankly we BOTH saved each other.

Who knows where we would have ended up without our little group hug?

 

[Albert]

Good points. But it "could" be that your perspective is only coming from an East Coast mentality where Unions and Workers rights and empowerment are much more prevalent than they are in the rest of the Country?

Here's a link to a reminder why your group voted to bring in a Union in the first place.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/19...49_1_machinists-service-workers-fleet-service

Al the Union philosophy or mindset really doesn't translate as well outside of my experience in LGA since I've worked in two other cities. MIA is far better than DFW for instance but in some other locations on both sides I hear it's a complete disaster.

Did you ever consider that since you were only exposed to Union in 1995 that maybe when you hired on it wasn't instilled in you? When I hired on that year I was taught how it worked from guys who had hired on in the 60's and 70's. LGA didn't play any games in letting us know how things worked.

As far as our concessions of 03 and it will be debated all the way till the last one of us is in the grave. Either way we would have lost (Like you did twice) Concede or have our nuts cut off (Pension) I'll have $1500.00 a month when I retire where I would have had about $50.00 a month if the company had thrown it on the PBGC 10 years earlier. (Pick your poison)

BTW I asked Tim Nelson this before. Yea right now you have more items than I do in your contract. But would you like to compare the last 20 years and see who stacked up better between two topped out employees who hired on the same year as you did? Or compare your whole career to that guy? I'm sure you know who comes out on top.

Yes you stack up better but I don't believe it was only the union, your airline was much bigger and never really facing liquidation. We were on deaths door more times than I like to remember. Your union also came up with the infamous B scale. You of all people couldn't have voted for that. You are correct I don't have a strong union mentality. When I see a union job getting outsourced and the very same union organizing the replacements it makes me cynical. I always say I work for AA not the IAM