JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[NYer]

You have not been there when it comes to this issue. You are not on the Negotiating committee. But I do like how the other day you were arguing on here with two guys who are. You got lots of Chutzba there Brother.
I'm not being a spokesman or pretending to know anything that we don't already know. The simple thing we know for a fact right now is that we got raises.
No I cannot answer your questions. But I hope you did relay them up the chain so that they can be answered when the details are put out by computer?
And yep. I said it just the day before. ZERO chance. Boy did I get knocked over by that feather.

Therefore, unanswered questions equate to a situation being in flux.

 

[Worldport]

Well I guess at this moment (Industry consolidation driving tremendous profits) it's easy to understand why you might fan the flames for them?

But from what I've read and heard from many of you it seems most of your career they've treated you like a mangy dog left out in the backyard to get rained on.

But I guess I can understand why it's easier to blame the Union for all those ills. They're the only target that will actually listen to you. Most guys usually #### at the wife and not the boss.

I'd say the mangy dog was equally abused my the union and company over the years. Now I truly believe we got a raise in spite of the union

 

[WeAAsles]

Therefore, unanswered questions equate to a situation being in flux.

Ok. If you want to go by that definition then but it does come across as sort of flimsy to me the terminology you're using.

As I told a mutual friend of ours. Look this thing only came out Friday. I know you like to be prepared with the details two seconds after it hits the wires, but you have to take a chill pill. It's only been 2 days. In the last few years I haven't seen not one single agreement for any Union that was made public where the details (And Q & A) didn't take a little time to be made available. That's a fact you know very well.

You're (honestly) coming across as a little desperate right now. Like you have to beat everyone to the punch. Relax. Go watch a movie or something. The information will be out soon enough.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'd say the mangy dog was equally abused my the union and company over the years. Now I truly believe we got a raise in spite of the union

You have the right to believe whatever you want to believe.

 

[NYer]

Ok. If you want to go by that definition then but it does come across as sort of flimsy to me the terminology you're using.

As I told a mutual friend of ours. Look this thing only came out Friday. I know you like to be prepared with the details two seconds after it hits the wires, but you have to take a chill pill. It's only been 2 days. In the last few years I haven't seen not one single agreement for any Union that was made public where the details (And Q & A) didn't take a little time to be made available. That's a fact you know very well.

You're (honestly) coming across like a little desperate right now. Like you have to beat everyone to the punch. Relax. Go watch a movie or something. The information will be out soon enough.

 
 
OK. So you agree the situation is still in flux and the details are still being worked out. 
 
The rest of your post is just fluff trying to divert attention and put focus on the person not the issue and most people see through that.

 

[toroshark]

Hey Tim, are Iam members allowed to opt out of the Iampf and not have that portion of their wages garnished. Then invest them into their 401k without a company match?

 

[Talos]

I don't lean towards management and I don't think there was any of my thousands of post on FB or here where anyone could even suggest that. What I do know is that there are clear and present problems between the TWU and IAM. And I think that would be common as well. Without spilling the beans entirely, the biggest hangup is the IAMPF. The TWU has mounting pressure to stay away from it from their members. Little signed the agreement, but Lombardo doesn't interpret it the same way, i.e., "Ok, IAMPF for all my TWU members, case closed."

When the company negotiates, by the time it hits the negotiation table, the company pretty much knows where everyone is in the ball park. Doesn't mean the IAM/TWU will agree, or the company will agree, but ALL items are discussed gentlemanly in side bar negotiations between less than a handful of peeps, mostly only 3 peeps, to get an idea of where everyone is coming from prior to putting things on the table. The actual negotiation committee is actually not involved in the sidebars and is pretty much clueless.

a few weeks back, the company determined that negotiations would drag on PRIMARILY due to the contention between the TWU and IAM over the IAMPF. Essentially, the IAM wants all TWU members to participate in the plan, without choice, and claims that the Association agreement insist upon it. The TWU doesn't believe that. The company canceled the negotiations a few weeks ago and basically told the two unions [amazingly] that they wanted the two unions more unified so they knew who the hell they would be dealing with. The company didn't want to negotiate against Jeckyl saying yes but Hyde saying no 10 minutes later. The standstill currently still exist over the IAMPF.

So Parker decided to go ahead and give us the money ahead of time, realizing the current problems he faced with the two unions. I don't get specifics and maybe the company and two unions will work things out, but the core of the problem is what I have been saying over the past 4 weeks. Moving forward, I only get information as Ned calls me. Ned isn't the sorta person I can just pick up the phone and call. Hopefully, Ned will call me soon with an update. You DEFINATELY know Ned. And I'm sure he only calls me to get the info out. I believe his info is beneficial to the members and has been. Members wanna know.

Sounds very plausible to me. Also sounds like something Little would do. I'd love to see this agreement between the 2 unions. Maybe they will dissolve the association. Maybe it is legally binding, I don't know. I think they will continue to have problems and maybe quite a few of them. The IAMPF is a real sore spot for LAA people and if it gets shoved down our throats it will not be taken lightly. It didn't help seeing those trustees committing crimes with members money. How nice of the IAM to want us all in such a gem of a pension fund.

 

[WeAAsles]

OK. So you agree the situation is still in flux and the details are still being worked out. 
 
The rest of your post is just fluff trying to divert attention and put focus on the person not the issue and most people see through that.

NO the details are NOT still being worked out. The sharing of all the information is being worked out. There was already a cost equated and shared with the news wires. If the costs were conveyed then of course the deal has been finalized.

What you're trying to do is paint the situation into a bad light as if they haven't put all the ink on the paper yet. You're fishing for information as hard as you possibly can and everyone can see that.

If you want to try to get more information early you know who you can call. Call Alex Garcia and ask him. He is your International Financial Secretary. Call Mike Mays if you have his phone number?

I think that you're trying (thinking) I have information I can share? I know as much as you do.

Now why don't you again go watch a nice movie or something?

 

[NYer]

NO the details are NOT still being worked out. The sharing of all the information is being worked out. There was already a cost equated and shared with the news wires. If the costs were conveyed then of course the deal has been finalized.
What you're trying to do is paint the situation into a bad light as if they haven't put all the ink on the paper yet. You're fishing for information as hard as you possibly can and everyone can see that.
If you want to try to get more information early you know who you can call. Call Alex Garcia and ask him. He is your International Financial Secretary. Call Mike Mays if you have his phone number?
I think that you're trying (thinking) I have information I can share? I know as much as you do.
Now why don't you again go watch a nice movie or something?

There you go, making comments about the person and not the issue. It is in no way a negative to in flux. It is in no way a negative reflection on anyone to be in flux. As a matter of fact, most deals or agreements continue to be in flux after the verbal and even signed agreements are done.

Situations like this create many technical, legal, logistical and interpretational questions which keep things in flux and could be modified to fit whatever unforeseen circumstances.

Being condescending is not a manner in which to have a civil discourse, you should try a different tact.

 

[WeAAsles]

There you go, making comments about the person and not the issue. It is in no way a negative to in flux. It is in no way a negative reflection on anyone to be in flux. As a matter of fact, most deals or agreements continue to be in flux after the verbal and even signed agreements are done.
Situations like this create many technical, legal, logistical and interpretational questions which keep things in flux and could be modified to fit whatever unforeseen circumstances.
Being condescending is not a manner in which to have a civil discourse, you should try a different tact.

You seem to have your own issues assuming everything is personal against you. Actually the rest of your comment makes a lot of sense and I can definitely agree with it when you put it the way you did.

To me I see the agreement as a positive. Details "may" still need to be worked out but I'm going to assume that most of the details have already been covered. I'm sure that there were enough minds (Some educated in Legal matters) that most contingencies have been covered.

NYer have a little faith that there are other smart people out there that are quite capable without you (Or I) of being able to piece the puzzles together.

 

[NYer]

You seem to have your own issues assuming everything is personal against you. Actually the rest of your comment makes a lot of sense and I can definitely agree with it when you put it the way you did.
To me I see the agreement as a positive. Details "may" still need to be worked out but I'm going to assume that most of the details have already been covered. I'm sure that there were enough minds (Some educated in Legal matters) that most contingencies have been covered.
NYer have a little faith that there are other smart people out there that are quite capable without you (Or I) of being able to piece the puzzles together.

It is mostly a positive, but like in most agreements, there will be points of concern for many Members.

 

[AANOTOK]

In all fairness, I have asked a bunch of repetitive questions. Just trying to get info on the details. As usual, a story breaks and then the memo is interpreted a few different ways and everyone has their opinion. Then of course opinions vary and then rumors start. My ass just needs to have patience and it will all come out soon. There, I accept all blame!

 

[robbedagain]

toroshark  we dont have our wages garnished for investment into the IAMPF     the company automatically puts 1.30 now...prior to this it was 1.15 for each hour the FT is scheduled and works it   and I think it was like .75 or so for PT    it does not come out of our check.   This is bec prior to this year we were the only group without PS as the pilots and CWA both have had it in their contracts for years.     As for being opted out  I do not think we can but I could be wrong though. 

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Sounds very plausible to me. Also sounds like something Little would do. I'd love to see this agreement between the 2 unions. Maybe they will dissolve the association. Maybe it is legally binding, I don't know. I think they will continue to have problems and maybe quite a few of them. The IAMPF is a real sore spot for LAA people and if it gets shoved down our throats it will not be taken lightly. It didn't help seeing those trustees committing crimes with members money. How nice of the IAM to want us all in such a gem of a pension fund.

The IAM needs LAA in their pension fraud so they can continue to manitain current benefit levels.

I will be voting No on *any* TA that crams LAA into the IAM pension fraud.Period.Full stop.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Any truth to the twu putting out a memo saying the new wage starts the 15th? That wouldnt make any sense since their new pay period started today, right?