JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA AMTS

[FWAAA]

That's true. Sorta like PIT and PHL. PIT is a great airport, more centrally located than PHL. Shame it doesn't have the O&D that PHL has.

Kansas City and Indianapolis are centrally located as well. Too bad Chicago is several multiples larger in size.

 

[bigjets]

Chicago is in decline, business's are leaving after governor raised taxes on business. AA scaled back after ORD doubled landing fees. Doug even said the only reason ORD makes money is because of eagle. AA main line use to have all of G H K and part of L concourse. Now all of G most of AAs gates at L and part of H is eagle. When USair moved to our terminal they just took some gates on H side. Giving our H side breakrooms to USair and we all got jammed into K side Break room. AA going to lose our second hangar at ORD soon because of new runway construction. We don't have nearly the ER operation we had at one time. Nothing going to stop AA from moving valuable LHR slots to JFK, PHL, CLT, STL, LAX, MIA wherever the plane makes money. Flights don't make money when dependablity is below 40% or whatever the real number is.

AA needs to make things right with the mechanics, this adversarial management style is not the answer. Either is using AMM as a weapon. It's a poor excuse to say you can't do job because of IAW, are you saying you never did a job by the book? What IAW means to me is, I just have to write down the AMM reference I used, because I have always worked by the manuals.

 

[Buck]

None whatsoever.  We have different operations and so we need different rules.  No one size fits all.

As per this forums conversation, it appears that negotiations are not giving the Line what they need?

 

[chris perry]

Management has one good shot to fix the operation,this heavy handed style they are using is clearly not working.It has angered the whole workforce.They Blatantly stomp on our contract yes the shitty one daily. Not good for labor relations... Plus dragging their feet on the new contract yes they are .I don't care what they say.They had no problem rewriting our contract in two weeks after 911.Now its rumored they are weaseling away from the delta +3.I guess we will see! 

 

[bigjets]

Zero chance of AA cutting international flying from ORD because of the mechanics. If AA reduces ORD flights to Asia or Europe, it will be because of the stagnant CHI economy, a near-breakdown in law and order among the law enforcement community and better opportunities for AA elsewhere.

It's possible that AA moves B checks to another city, but that's not the same as slashing international routes.


It's more likely that STL closes completely and loses all air service than AA moving its ORD hub to STL. STL is a declining, sad city much like PIT was 30 years ago. O&D to LHR is practically non-existent compared to ORD. Similarly, PHX will never be a major TPAC gateway; the O&D is at much larger LAX.

Internet know-it-alls have repeatedly claimed that Parker will abandon ORD and surrender the market to UA, which is possible, but very unlikely. That would enable UA to build up to a ATL-sized operation at ORD. I suspect that the government would not let UA take over the AA real estate at ORD if AA abandoned it. Probably see a lot more LCCs and ULLCs at ORD instead.

Anyway, AA isn't going to build a hub at STL and reduce ORD. Anybody selling that fairy tale to co-workers should face a random drug test.

 
I didn't say moving ORD hub to STL, I said move flights, don't think it will happen anyway, just the rumors going around. Probably just a scare tactic. Between business, and property taxes going up, AA will not be as big in ORD as before. 
 
on to the next subject.

 

[MetalMover]

None whatsoever.  We have different operations and so we need different rules.  No one size fits all.

Very true, but since it appears that the CS policy will be contractual like LUS, then one size will have to fit all.

 

[topDawg]

These issues will be the sticking points.

USair : 100% line Maint , 50% OH outsourced
AA : 35% total outsourcing

USair : employee pays 7% for health insurance
AA: employee pays 20% for health insurance.

I think hourly wage will be easy, unfortunately I don't think Ass. will fight for shift diff being paid as a percentage. There must not be anything in it for Union to get that.

I like the fact that CS policy is in contact, we will never have to worry about a station manager deciding one day to change policy because they can.

 
Airframe overhaul. 
 
Engines and components can be 100% outsourced. (and for US all engine overhauls are outsourced. ) 

 

[chilokie1]

Airframe overhaul. 
 
Engines and components can be 100% outsourced. (and for US all engine overhauls are outsourced. )
[/quote



You are correct but I know that a few of the USAir management team who only
Knew the USAir way of outsourcing engine work were surprised that AA could
get their CFM56-7's overhauled in house 40% quicker then their CFM56-5's on
average from its overhaul contractor. Don't be surprised if it goes the other way
once the contract is complete.

 

[topDawg]

Airframe overhaul. 
 
Engines and components can be 100% outsourced. (and for US all engine overhauls are outsourced. )
[/quote



You are correct but I know that a few of the USAir management team who only
Knew the USAir way of outsourcing engine work were surprised that AA could
get their CFM56-7's overhauled in house 40% quicker then their CFM56-5's on
average from its overhaul contractor. Don't be surprised if it goes the other way
once the contract is complete.

 
We have had the same issue with some exNW people. TATs/TBOs for every engine sent out is worse than every engine done in-house. It sounds like Delta really wants to do the V2500s in house but just doesn't have the room to do it. Same deal for the CFM56s that are sent out. (-5A, -5Bs and -7s are in-house) 
 
Hopefully you are right. Delta got to learn some of the somethings, its just a question of will management be smart enough to change and will the union be smart enough to help then change by pushing for it. 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Very true, but since it appears that the CS policy will be contractual like LUS, then one size will have to fit all.

One size doesn't fit all.  Right now we have one shift where I work so there is no CS at all.  There needs to be something different for overhaul bases.  Not asking for anything special.  Just make it so we can have some flexibility too.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

As per this forums conversation, it appears that negotiations are not giving the Line what they need?

I don't think the negotiators are the problem.  I think the company is refusing to budge on anything.  We do not want US Air's contract and they do not want ours there needs to be improvements everywhere and it seems AA wants to continue concessions forever.  They may be offering slight improvements but not restoring anything.  They are hoping people will see money and not think about anything else.  Also I doubt the money offered will be industry leading.  Just a feeling.

 

[Buck]

Try this one: At the Mechanic Maintenance Competition this year Parker approached the mechanics of our team and after some discussion, that we should have a contract at the end of September..

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Try this one: At the Mechanic Maintenance Competition this year Parker approached the mechanics of our team and after some discussion, that we should have a contract at the end of September..

Funny but I remember someone saying September when negotiations first started.  

 

[1AA]

One size doesn't fit all.  Right now we have one shift where I work so there is no CS at all.  There needs to be something different for overhaul bases.  Not asking for anything special.  Just make it so we can have some flexibility too.

Hey if you don't like it in Tulsa you can always transfer to a line station. Remember years back Tulsa always told us New York boys that same line. Not to sound like I'm rubbing it in but we all need to be on the same page. If you have 7 day coverage and multiple shifts then the CS policy for the line should be similar for all stations. I say similar but not identical. My understanding is Tulsa has 7 day coverage and two shifts. CS should be allowed. This is why the new AA wants it contractual.

 

[bigjets]

CS policy should fit all mechs. Every station has 7 day coverage and multiple shifts. Shouldn't be a problem.