It's Going To Be A Bumpy Ride

[FibberMcGee]

I remember well the TWA sickout of 1996 Holidays. The ones that suffered most besides the passengers were the agents and the EICs that had to deal with the public hatred. Not one f/a said a word to us after it was over. They felt justified in dumping on the agents. In these situations, you can make the same point by doing on any other time of year. To do it at the holiday time is extremely selfish in my opinion. It won't bother me this year because I'm furloughed as of 1NOV03. You only hurt the passengers heading home to see their grandparents possibly for the last time ever. The enemy is not and has never been the passengers or the agents. Best of luck to all and this year you might try and be thankful you have a pretty decent job. Many of you former coworkers do not.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Anyone who is still questioning whether or not the agent 'focus groups' that were just held in Dallas were a false front for decisions that had long been previously made, need no longer wonder. AA is now offering Voluntary Extended and Transitional Leaves throughout the system for agents.

If enough agents don't voluntarily "quit" to satisfy the company, the firings will begin in short order. Remember, airlines love to hand out pink slips over the holidays.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I've been reading this(15 page) topic for some time now, and though it primarily centers around F/A's, bottom line, it's about PRINCPLE !!!

1st.
AA threatens to go BK-11, THEN BK-7 if the unions refuse to "kow-tow"

2nd.
[edited](the likes of John Ward, and Jim Little) lose ANY resemblence of dignity, and "take it in the shorts" from AA, ALL THE WHILE they're representing us.

3rd.
Thieves like Carty AND ARPEY, get caught "stashing the cash".(Carty resigns, BIG F**KING DEAL)

So just when you think it can't get any worse, "viola", IT DOES, with FAR TOO MANY AAers(on this thread) becoming SERIOUSLY infected with the "STOCKHOLM SYNDROME"

Hey, in a perfect world, no one wants to impose hardships on the pax's,
BUT,
as WNP correctly stated, "desperate times beget desperate measures"

And like it or not, AA started it. That right, AA started it.

9/11 you say?

NO, AA started it long before 9/11. Who says so?, many reputable media outlets (the wall street journal comes to mind)

Unless you've been "under a rock" the past 10+ years, the whole friggin' business world knows that AA has done a DEPLORABLE job with (union) employee relations !!!!!!!!!!

Being born, raised, and working in the("take NO prisioners") North east section of this country, has PROUDLY taught me that if you,

push me down, I'll push you down HARDER
spit on me, I'll spit on you MORE,
disrespect me, I'll disrespect you GREATER

We are, without question, "A PRODUCT OF OUR ENVIRONMENT" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing more, nothing less !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"It IS, what it IS"

NH/BB's

 

[FibberMcGee]

I've been reading this(15 page) topic for some time now, and though it primarily centers around F/A's, bottom line, it's about PRINCPLE !!!

1st.
AA threatens to go BK-11, THEN BK-7 if the unions refuse to "kow-tow"

2nd.
Ass holes(the likes of John Ward, and Jim Little) lose ANY resemblence of dignity, and "take it in the shorts" from AA, ALL THE WHILE they're representing us.

3rd.
Thieves like Carty AND ARPEY, get caught "stashing the cash".(Carty resigns, BIG F**KING DEAL)

So just when you think it can't get any worse, "viola", IT DOES, with FAR TOO MANY AAers(on this thread) becoming SERIOUSLY infected with the "STOCKHOLM SYNDROME"

Hey, in a perfect world, no one wants to impose hardships on the pax's,
BUT,
as WNP correctly stated, "desperate times beget desperate measures"

And like it or not, AA started it. That right, AA started it.

9/11 you say?

NO, AA started it long before 9/11. Who says so?, many reputable media outlets (the wall street journal comes to mind)

Unless you've been "under a rock" the past 10+ years, the whole friggin' business world knows that AA has done a DEPLORABLE job with (union) employee relations !!!!!!!!!!

Being born, raised, and working in the("take NO prisioners") North east section of this country, has PROUDLY taught me that if you,

push me down, I'll push you down HARDER
spit on me, I'll spit on you MORE,
disrespect me, I'll disrespect you GREATER

We are, without question, "A PRODUCT OF OUR ENVIRONMENT" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing more, nothing less !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"It IS, what it IS"

NH/BB's

So its okay to dump on your fellow employees and the passengers then? That's great! If you do it then at least have some "respect" for the passengers and your fellow coworkers and understand what it does to them. Just a thought.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

So its okay to dump on your fellow employees and the passengers then?

Yes. It's completely acceptable. Just like employees, customers are pawns in this game as well. So be it.

That's great! If you do it then at least have some "respect" for the passengers and your fellow coworkers and understand what it does to them. Just a thought.

What it does to fellow employees is give them a fighting chance to hold onto their jobs, (and no, a single sick out isn't going to fold up this airline.) Don't forget, AA has taken 20 and 30 years of the lives of many of their employees, and would now like to turn them out into the street where, at their ages, they are pretty much unemployable. I don't need anyone else on food stamps thank you. Remember, here in south florida, we already have millions of cubans who don't have to work, or worry about supporting a family.....all they have to do is set foot on the beach and the federal government will hand them everything they need for nothing, they don't do that for displaced airline employees, or any other american citizen for that matter.

My personal opinion here is that the only way to send a message to the corporate slaughter house is to take money away from them, just like they took it away from thousands of employees. Without you, the employees, there is no need for corporate executives.

In persepctive, to hell with the passengers. What the company perceives the passengers want is a cheap low fare no frills airline. In delivering it to them, the passengers are responsible for gutting a once great airline, and are being used as fodder in the airline's desire to dump it's labor force.

You can't tug at any heartstrings when you are talking to people who's salaries and benefits have been slashed beyond belief. If I were any one of them, I too would tell you the last thing I care about is how a passenger feels when I'm more concerned about how I'm going to feed and care for my family when my employer would love nothing more than to take away my ability to do that.

If anyone thinks that "treating the customer right" for the next five years will return this company to profitability, then you've sipped too much kool-aid. What the company is really asking for is 5 years of cheap labor to give them time to find more ways to get rid of even more employees. The ARE doing it. So screw the passengers and to hell with fellow employees. When your employer goes on the attack, you gotta look out for number 1.

Have a nice day! :blink:

 

[jimntx]

In persepctive, to hell with the passengers. What the company perceives the passengers want is a cheap low fare no frills airline. In delivering it to them, the passengers are responsible for gutting a once great airline, and are being used as fodder in the airline's desire to dump it's labor force.

We can't say to hell with the passengers with impunity. That is a self-fulfilling prophecy, except instead of to hell, they will go to Southwest or Delta or JetBlue or anybody who treats them decently AND gives them a rock-bottom fare.

The real problem is that management's perception of the problem is wrong also. There has been a failure to manage customer expectations. Management thinks that the desire for a cheap fare is the only issue.

The problem lies in the customer's expectations of AA vs. the same customer's expectations of JetBlue or Southwest. When a customer gets on a JetBlue JFK-LGB flight, he is perfectly happy to get no meal for five hours and to carry his own trash off the plane at LGB because he is doing it for $199.

When the same customer boards an AA JFK-LGB flight, he EXPECTS to get a meal on a tray, a water service halfway through the movie, a second beverage service, and a snack right before landing--all of this on a spotless, new a/c. The problem lies in the fact that said customer sees no problem in expecting to pay the same $199 fare.

I don't have a ready answer to all this, but we've developed this idea in this country that "if I want it, someone has to provide it at a price I can afford because it's my constitutional right to have whatever the next guy has whether I'm willing to pay for it or not." There is a great deal of ranting about jobs being shipped overseas (and that is an injustice that needs to be addressed), but companies are doing it because we want cheap tvs, cheap cars, and cheap gas.
People in California are ranting about paying $2.00/gal for gas when people in Europe have paid over $4/gal for years! Who taught young people that if they can't afford to buy a CD, they can just steal the music off the Internet? I'm an old poop who remembers that there was a time when only luxury automobiles had options such as a/c, c/d players or automatic transmission. Now, you can't sell a Kia without those options.

But, don't get me started...

 

[FibberMcGee]

Yes. It's completely acceptable. Just like employees, customers are pawns in this game as well. So be it.



What it does to fellow employees is give them a fighting chance to hold onto their jobs, (and no, a single sick out isn't going to fold up this airline.) Don't forget, AA has taken 20 and 30 years of the lives of many of their employees, and would now like to turn them out into the street where, at their ages, they are pretty much unemployable. I don't need anyone else on food stamps thank you. Remember, here in south florida, we already have millions of cubans who don't have to work, or worry about supporting a family.....all they have to do is set foot on the beach and the federal government will hand them everything they need for nothing, they don't do that for displaced airline employees, or any other american citizen for that matter.

My personal opinion here is that the only way to send a message to the corporate slaughter house is to take money away from them, just like they took it away from thousands of employees. Without you, the employees, there is no need for corporate executives.

In persepctive, to hell with the passengers. What the company perceives the passengers want is a cheap low fare no frills airline. In delivering it to them, the passengers are responsible for gutting a once great airline, and are being used as fodder in the airline's desire to dump it's labor force.

You can't tug at any heartstrings when you are talking to people who's salaries and benefits have been slashed beyond belief. If I were any one of them, I too would tell you the last thing I care about is how a passenger feels when I'm more concerned about how I'm going to feed and care for my family when my employer would love nothing more than to take away my ability to do that.

If anyone thinks that "treating the customer right" for the next five years will return this company to profitability, then you've sipped too much kool-aid. What the company is really asking for is 5 years of cheap labor to give them time to find more ways to get rid of even more employees. The ARE doing it. So screw the passengers and to hell with fellow employees. When your employer goes on the attack, you gotta look out for number 1.

Have a nice day! :blink:

My point was...If you read the whole thing...is that IF you do it at least know that you are hurting other people besides "the company". Hey, I and a lot of other good people would like to be working, period. I didn't dump on the f/as when I found out I was being furloughed. Why not go through your union to get things changed? Some of you give agents and crew schedulers a hard time strictly for doing their job. If they are calling you to work another flight its because they have to----probably because another f/a called in sick. Until you're out of a job you won't have a clue as to how good you may have it now. Things are pretty rotten in airlineland right now. Try showing a little empathy to the agents now and then. Why not try to have a little fun once in a while instead of griping and moaning. The airline industry used to be a fun place to work but the complainers have really brought things down.

I still don't think its "acceptable" to dump on your fellow employees and NEVER will. Good luck to all and I truly hope this ends the furlough process. Too many people are on the streets.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Sure a sick out is going to affect other employees, what good would it do if it affected no one? The idea is if you know a sick out is coming, you call in sick too so you don't get dumped on. That's how the links in the chain continue to be built.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

"fibber",

What I(and perhaps WNP) are trying to convey here, is not rocket science.

If management has(over the years, and ESPECIALLY now) "DE-MOTIVATED" us, then we go about our jobs DE-MOTIVATED. WITHOUT the slightest bit of guilt.

Many an independent survey has shown time and time again, that pissed off employees use significantly more sick time, family leave, injury on duty, etc-etc-etc.

fibber, stay with me now. The solution is to retrace the steps back to the ORIGIN of the "stink", which in this case is(DRUM ROLL PLZ) AMERICAN AIRLINES MANAGEMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm STILL waiting for ANYBODY on this friggin' board to try to justify why, on a day set aside for DEAD GI's,(Memorial Day), that this A*S HOLE company does not see fit to celebrate it(for working AAers) as a HOLIDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fibber, I'm not talking about presidents day, good friday, colombus day or the day after thanksgiving here ?????????????????????????????

NH/BB's

 

[FWAAA]

I fly on Memorial Day. I fly on Labor Day. I fly on Veterans Day. I fly on Christmas Day. I fly on Easter. I fly on my kids' birthday. I fly on Independence Day. I fly no matter what day it is. I am a veteran and my family is loaded with veterans.

If you wanted a government job, then you should have signed on with the government instead of an airline.

Is it that you have to work on Memorial Day or are you just bitching like a baby about the money (now that it is no longer a holiday, you don't get paid hundreds of extra dollars)????

 

[WingNaPrayer]

My guess would be that he's opposed to not being able to recognize the veterans - you know, those who died so you could have the right to spew venom on a message board?

Yeah, that would be my guess. <_<

 

[FibberMcGee]

"fibber",

What I(and perhaps WNP) are trying to convey here, is not rocket science.

If management has(over the years, and ESPECIALLY now) "DE-MOTIVATED" us, then we go about our jobs DE-MOTIVATED. WITHOUT the slightest bit of guilt.

Many an independent survey has shown time and time again, that pissed off employees use significantly more sick time, family leave, injury on duty, etc-etc-etc.

fibber, stay with me now. The solution is to retrace the steps back to the ORIGIN of the "stink", which in this case is(DRUM ROLL PLZ) AMERICAN AIRLINES MANAGEMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm STILL waiting for ANYBODY on this friggin' board to try to justify why, on a day set aside for DEAD GI's,(Memorial Day), that this A*S HOLE company does not see fit to celebrate it(for working AAers) as a HOLIDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fibber, I'm not talking about presidents day, good friday, colombus day or the day after thanksgiving here ?????????????????????????????

NH/BB's

"nhbb",


There is no need to be condescending (sp). What I meant was that sh...ing on your fellow coworkers is not the answer. And this isn't rocket science either...lighten up a bit on the agents every once in a while-thats all. I agree with your sentiments, I do. I just want you to know I worked the holidays too and if I happen to get the day off I almost always work so that someone can be home with their kids and have for years. I'll have this Holiday off-unpaid of course.

I never said anything about Memorial day. It would be nice that every Vet could get off on Memorial day but that is not possible. Should it be a paid holiday, of course. Why would you think I thought otherwise? Again that is a union issue as well as a company issue.

And for the record, as of 01NOV03 I'm not getting paid at all...Its also not rocket science that I'll probably lose my house in few months. Just like many others out there.

Wing,

I have the utmost respect for the Veterans of this country and for you to hint otherwise is ridiculous to say the least. And stay with ME now. The agents are NOT management. But I suspect you know that

 

[Garfield1966]

I'm STILL waiting for ANYBODY on this friggin' board to try to justify why, on a day set aside for DEAD GI's,(Memorial Day), that this A*S HOLE company does not see fit to celebrate it(for working AAers) as a HOLIDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, let me try and walk you through this. I’ll try and type as slow as I can so you can keep up.

We do not get veterans day off for the same reason we do not get any other holiday off. Why you ask? We work for an A I R L I N E!!!

We are open EVERY day of the year. Not some days, not most days, EVERY day. You get to honor the vets the same way you get to celebrate X-mass, easter or any other holiday. You trade off the day or, in your case, you probably call in sick.

As some other poster stated, if you want the holidays off then get a desk job in (oh, I know you’ll love this) MANAGEMENT.

That is why we do not get veterans day off. Any other questions I can shed some light on for you?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

My fault for not being MORE clear about Memorial Day.
I've been in this "racket" for 22+ years, so I KNOW the "drill"

My squawk is that when Management "HACKED" our holidays to death, that they saw fit to make New years day/4th-july/labor day/thanksgiving, and Christmas as holidays off(WHICH THEY SHOULD BE), but disrespected Memorial day, by having the balls to pay working AAers(like all of you, and me) straight time pay.

Again, I should have made my point clearer.

With that said,
All of you, suffering from (AA) Stockholm Syndrome, can NOW start defending AA.



fibber,

If you were one of the agents, who voted (unsuccsessfully) to try and unionize the agent group, and are laid off, I SINCERELY am sorry that your in a tough spot.

(I'm not saying even if the agent group was unionized that you would'nt have been furloughed, but if it was, you can bet that more agents would still be working )

NH/BB's

 

[WingNaPrayer]

they saw fit to make New years day/4th-july/labor day/thanksgiving, and Christmas as holidays off(WHICH THEY SHOULD BE)

I disagree. The first day of the year as a day of no work is one of the most asinine ideas for a holiday. Christmas is a religious christian holiday, and is unfair to other religions who's holidays are not working holidays.

(I'm not saying even if the agent group was unionized that you would'nt have been furloughed, but if it was, you can bet that more agents would still be working )

The time is ripe for agent unionization. Unfortunately, the CWA is the only game in town ready to pounce at a moments notice. I would say however, that any union that got in on behalf of agents right now would sink in their teeth like a pit bull, knowing how other bargaining groups sold out their members with the airlines. I think the agents would ultimately end up with the strongest contract the industry has ever seen.