Is US'' business partner UA stuck in a quagmire of mud?

[Falco]

I want to correct a mistake I made in a reply to busdrvr. I stated CAL would make a profit in May. I based this on their previously estimated BELF of 76% (without government aid, with it it was 54%), and their website which stated their MTD load factor was 76.5. When they came out with actual numbers, the BELF was 78% and actual was 75.9. Still, the point is made that CAL is in relatively good shape.

 

[supercruiser]

>>I have no other special interest and I believe its important to note my career, pay, and benefits have been much better by staying at US than returning to UA after I elected to decline recall as part of the "570" --

 

[Busdrvr]

----------------
On 6/4/2003 1202 AM supercruiser wrote:

That would make you a wide body line holding Capt, and you would have been for a number of years.


----------------​

I think some 570''s have broken into the ranks of the 747-400 capt seat (reserve of course).

 

[Busdrvr]

----------------
On 6/3/2003 10:27:27 AM Falco wrote:

I want to correct a mistake I made in a reply to busdrvr. I stated CAL would make a profit in May. I based this on their previously estimated BELF of 76% (without government aid, with it it was 54%), and their website which stated their MTD load factor was 76.5. When they came out with actual numbers, the BELF was 78% and actual was 75.9. Still, the point is made that CAL is in relatively good shape.

----------------​

Yes I''m also familiar with CAL''s april traffic report. I think going forward, the key for CAL will be the performance of AMR. They surely got somebump in yield and bookings as a result of AMR''s near death experience. That bump may go away, and AMR, with much lower cost now, may be able to put a dent into CAL where they overlap. Time will tell, but would YOU loan them half a billion (that''s half a trillion for you UK) to role over debt in July?

 

[Twicebaked]

We all DO have axes to grind. Those at UA are going to go through things worse than US did..IMO. All at UA are indenial. We here at US were there for a long time, and I think we are still there to a point. There will be something to be said once UA either folds or definately shrinks. You will have an ax to grind too.

 

[767jetz]

----------------
On 6/4/2003 1202 AM supercruiser wrote:

You’re blowing smoke when you try to tell anyone that your career has been much better at US.


----------------​

I agree. For the record, as a 767 FO based in NY I fly with many 570''s. They are senior line holders. A close friend of mine is a 570, and he''s been a reserve captain for a little while on the 777 in MIA. He could hold a line as a 777 captain in ORD and possibly NY. Considering not just pay but quality of life and retirement, (and assuming both companies survive) I find it hard to believ that Chip is better off at US overall.

Therfore, IMO Chip most certainly does have an axe to grind, and the intentions behind his posts are transparent.

 

[Bear96]

----------------
On 6/4/2003 923 AM Twicebaked wrote:

We all DO have axes to grind. Those at UA are going to go through things worse than US did..IMO. All at UA are indenial. We here at US were there for a long time, and I think we are still there to a point. There will be something to be said once UA either folds or definately shrinks. You will have an ax to grind too.


----------------​

Chip started grinding his ax long before U was facing Ch.11.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Supercruiser:

Supercruiser said: "You’re blowing smoke when you try to tell anyone that your career has been much better at US."

Chip responds: I find it interesting that you took time to look at my career and I appreciate your attention, but you may want to do a little more research before you post.

Here are the facts:

At US I upgraded to Captain in just over 4 years where at UA it would have taken 8 years, which provided me with 33% more income.

At US I was “A†scale and at UA I would have been “B†scale, which provided me 50% more income.

At US we took a pay cut in the early 90’s, but received twice the amount of the cut and stock options in return. If I had returned to UA I would have taken a very large ESOP pay and retirement cut.

These three issues permitted me to significantly out earn my UA counterparts and permitted me to balance my portfolio, to provide even more economic benefits due to capital gains.

I am currently holding a mid A320 block in US, can fly high time two days trips or one-day trips, with the most flexible scheduling system in the industry. This let’s me make almost all of my children’s events and perform community service, which is very important for my wife and I. In particular, I’m a Board member for our local township Athletic Association, league coordinator for our Little League program, Director of our youth basketball program, basketball head coach, and a spring/fall outdoor soccer coach. In addition, I coach indoor soccer in the winter and teach ski lessons in the winter at our second home and this fall will become an outdoor soccer league commissioner; as well as a member of our churh building and properties committee.

My wife has a number of community service projects such as a church council member, director of our church vacation bible program, she’s a soccer coach, and at our children’s school will be co-director of the cloths line sale (that makes about $70,000 profit) and works on the school auction (which makes over $100,000).

On our baseball team we have a player whose Dad is a UA B767 Captain who goes on six day trips, is being downgraded to the A320, and attends about half of his son’s baseball games.

My job with US permitted me to fly in the Air Force reserve in PIT, where I was the most active participant during my tenure, permitting me to earn extra income and obtain a retirement, where if I was at UA I couldn’t have earned as much or obtained as much in retirement.

Supercruiser, you do the math – which was better decision?

However, from my perspective I’ve earned more money at US, have a great schedule, and a high quality of life, all of which have exceeded what would have occurred if I had returned to UA. Considering I do not work weekends or holiday’s and can attend all of our family events, my position provides an enormous intangible quality of life benefit,, which I would not trade for anything.

For example, it's great to fly a morning Shuttle sequence, commute home, and then manage a baseball game or coach basketball or soccer practice; as well as help out at church.

It’s really to bad the UA Captain, who has a son on my baseball team, cannot make the same statement and participate with his son like I can with mine. 

Finally, I believe it’s also noteworthy that US is out of bankruptcy while UA appears stuck in quagmire – what’s that worth to piece of mind?

Regardless, thanks for your personal interest.

Best regards,

Chip 

 

[magsau]

Chip Munn,

Are you the son of Gordon Bethune????? Or just a UAL hater like he is.

Get over yourself big guy. Let it go, enjoy life and let it go.

 

[ual06]

Pilots picket.
F/A''s picket.
Mud?

 

[Bear96]

So Chip, are you implying the 570 are now being FORCED to fly the terrible six-day international widebody trips at UA, which would surely go junior at U? Or perhaps your buddy is CHOOSING to do that, and perhaps could be flying a different schedule / different equipment / different domicile if he so chose.

----------------
On 6/4/2003 957 PM Chip Munn wrote:

By the way, at the recent US Check Airman meeting, US vice president of operations Captain Ed Bular, told meeting attendees that UA was going to have a 6,000 pilot work force.

Best regards,

Chip

----------------​

Yep, and AA and Gordo were counting on UA being out of business by now. If Bular is saying it... must be true. No doubt Glen Tilton has regular conference calls to keep U management informed about his plans.

Is this 6,000 figure before or after the "UTC" takes effect? Did he give a date when this number would be reached? Just curious. Not saying he will end up being proven wrong necessarily... I just find it interesting that you continue to choose to post the gloom and doom forecasts about UA (no matter what their source), yet ignore any reports that may indicate UA is not quite on the brink of shutting its doors. For example, the announcement of beginning SFO-ICN service. (That's Seoul, Korea, for those of you who don't get past the Mississippi River very often.)

 

[USA320Pilot]

Magsau:

Magsau asked: "Are you the son of Gordon Bethune????? Or just a UAL hater like he is."

Chip answers: No, I simply report information, correct misinformation, and my only interest in UA is how the Chicago-based airline effects US in a business relationship...no more, no less.

Magsau said: "Get over yourself big guy. Let it go, enjoy life and let it go."

Chip answers: I do enjoy life and our family lives it to the fullest, which is possible because US has the most flexible pilot scheduling system in the industry, where for example this month I can fly trips with long PHX, SAN, & DEN overnights in my line or drop them and fly Shuttle trips. See Mags, the most important thing to me is my family and quality of life.

By the way, at the recent US Check Airman meeting, US vice president of operations Captain Ed Bular, told meeting attendees that UA was going to have a 6,000 pilot work force.

Best regards,

Chip

 

[USA320Pilot]

Bear96:

Bear96 said: "So Chip, are you implying the 570 are now being FORCED to fly the terrible six-day international widebody trips at UA, which would surely go junior at U? Or perhaps your buddy is CHOOSING to do that, and perhaps could be flying a different schedule / different equipment / different domicile if he so chose."

Chip answers: Bear, I do not believe I implied anything. My point is that Supercruiser made inaccurate comments. I have earned more at US than I would have if I had stayed at UA and I get to manage my son''s team, while the UA Captain misses more than half of his son''s game -- regardless of the reason. Personally, I love my schedule and what it affords me to do. What''s great about the US flight crew scheduling system is for lineholders, and somewhat reserves, our personal schedule drives our professional schedule.

Bear asked: "Is this 6,000 figure before or after the "UTC" takes effect? Did he give a date when this number would be reached? Just curious. Not saying he will end up being proven wrong necessarily."

Chip answers: Captain Bular simply made the statement.

Bear said: "I just find it interesting that you continue to choose to post the gloom and doom forecasts about UA (no matter what their source), yet ignore any reports that may indicate UA is not quite on the brink of shutting its doors."

Chip comments: Bear, I disagree with your comment. However, if you look in recent threads I have commented that UA receivied $365 million in a tax refund and $300 million in federal aid, which will boost liquidity. Furthermore, I have talked about the $2.56 billion in annual labor costs and the alliance, which by the way per Dave Siegel has boosted US'' passengers about 10,000 per day (presumably the same figure of UA).

Best regards,

Chip

 

[Busdrvr]

----------------
On 6/4/2003 2:44:12 PM Chip Munn wrote:

"These three issues permitted me to significantly out earn my UA counterparts and permitted me to balance my portfolio, to provide even more economic benefits due to capital gains."

A-Fund? just curious, when where you able to hold a 777 or 747-400 F/O or Capt position?


"On our baseball team we have a player whose Dad is a UA B767 Captain who goes on six day trips, is being downgraded to the A320, and attends about half of his son’ baseball game."

Uh, What''s his seniority? you say he is being "downgraded" to the biggest thing you''ve ever flown? What''s your B-fund contr? What''s his? Pay rates? Do you live near a U domicile? How would your schedule be if you lived in DEN, SFO, or LAX? Maybe you''d want to bid those six day trips. Some 570''s at UAL now hold the 747-400 on reserve. That''s bigger than what the number one guy on you list holds.

"My job with US permitted me to fly in the Air Force reserve in PIT, where I was the most active participant during my tenure, permitting me to earn extra income and obtain a retirement, where if I was at UA I couldn’t have earned as much or obtained as much in retirement."

Wow, so PIT has the only AFR or ANG base in the US? You''re making me laugh.

"Supercruiser, you do the math – which was better decision?"

Chip, supercruiser ISN''T the one obsessed with UAL. To understand your motive, I think one has to go back to your writtings when the "buyout" was on.

"Considering I do not work weekends or holiday’s and can attend all of our family events, my position provides an enormous intangible quality of life benefit,, which I would not trade for anything."

Which I did at UAL.

"For example, it''s great to fly a morning Shuttle sequence, commute home, and then manage a baseball game or coach basketball or soccer practice; as well as help out at church."

It''s even better to enjoy my kids athletic event while carrying a cell phone, one hour (by car) from work. I''ll bet I had more time at home.


"Finally, I believe it’s also noteworthy that US is out of bankruptcy while UA appears stuck in quagmire – what’s that worth to piece of mind?"

Yes, you should be proud, you beat everybody else to bankruptcy, and have already beat everybody else to A-plan termination. You''ve also got the added bonus of picketing employees. you must be proud.



----------------​

 

[USA320Pilot]

Busdrvr:

I find it interesting that you as a UA employee spend so much time on the US board. The point of my response to Supercruiser's inaccurate comments are: I have earned more at US than if I had returned to UA, the US scheduling system permits me to have my personal life driven by my professional schedule, and I believe I have had a better career path at US than UA -- instead of Supercruiser's inaccurate and inflammatory comments.

Moreover, I find it interesting you feel the need to "shoot the messenger" versus look at reality. Wouldn't your time be better spent on the UA message board discussing issues to help UA, versus misrepresenting comments on the US board?

Regardless, I empathize with the stress of a formal reorganization, which can cause people to make emotional outbursts.

Best regards,

Chip