Is The Company Bluffing?
- Thread starter jack mama
- Start date
Neither. The company is dead serious about ch.11 and I dont think the judge is going to be nice to anyone (management or employees). You need to add 2 more options. C) management is not negotiating faithfully and D) unions are not taking it seriously.
Now dont go jump on me guys, I vote for C...
Now dont go jump on me guys, I vote for C...
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
I don't believe the company is bluffing.
They are ready and prepared to go into Chapter 11 no matter what we negotiate or what 1113 letter protections is had.
The co. is not done screwing everyone over....Chapter 11 it will be.
As far as 1113 letters, the creditors are in control; not management.
Only leverage I see for labor this time in BK is that we gave already $1.2 billion that U squandered, and labor will not tolerate abrogation of agreements.
There will be no morale left to turn the co. around to make a profit. Company knows it, judge knows it, labor knows it, and the creditors know it!
IN BK, Labor will ask for a "trustee" and the company will be forced to negotiate in "good faith". WE will come up with deals in BK.
And this management will not get an amendable date of 2012!
They are ready and prepared to go into Chapter 11 no matter what we negotiate or what 1113 letter protections is had.
The co. is not done screwing everyone over....Chapter 11 it will be.
As far as 1113 letters, the creditors are in control; not management.
Only leverage I see for labor this time in BK is that we gave already $1.2 billion that U squandered, and labor will not tolerate abrogation of agreements.
There will be no morale left to turn the co. around to make a profit. Company knows it, judge knows it, labor knows it, and the creditors know it!
IN BK, Labor will ask for a "trustee" and the company will be forced to negotiate in "good faith". WE will come up with deals in BK.
And this management will not get an amendable date of 2012!
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #6
PitBull,
I don't know what your group has been offered in the way of a 1113 letter, but the offer to ALPA is somewhat comic, stipulating the earlier of 4 "drop dead" dates after which the 1113 letter is void:
Sept 10, 2004 unless company proposal is ratified and signed by national - an obvious no brainer, no agreement no letter.
Nov 12, 2004 unless labor agreements are in place with all unions (either concensual or imposed) which provide the estimated amount of relief necessary for the transformation plan (and the company's estimates are determinitive.
Jan 31, 2005 (no explanation given in the proposal for this specific date)
On the effective date of a plan of reorganization in a Ch 11 - again an obvious no brainer, no longer in bk no letter.
Jim
I don't know what your group has been offered in the way of a 1113 letter, but the offer to ALPA is somewhat comic, stipulating the earlier of 4 "drop dead" dates after which the 1113 letter is void:
Sept 10, 2004 unless company proposal is ratified and signed by national - an obvious no brainer, no agreement no letter.
Nov 12, 2004 unless labor agreements are in place with all unions (either concensual or imposed) which provide the estimated amount of relief necessary for the transformation plan (and the company's estimates are determinitive.
Jan 31, 2005 (no explanation given in the proposal for this specific date)
On the effective date of a plan of reorganization in a Ch 11 - again an obvious no brainer, no longer in bk no letter.
Jim
PITbull said:
I absolutely agree with you PitBull... just take us in and get it over with one way or another. The judge will not automatically abrogate all the labor contracts... there will be a process. My question is can the 1113 letter we had during the last C-11 round possibly be used this round? What do the AFA attorneys think?
