Interesting

[Over-Talk]

With all the strength I could muster (insert baaad sheep joke here) I was able to pull myself away from this website today to read the Globe and Mail.
In there was an article about why the bidders for the new Maritime Helicopter Project were not meeting the requirements..............

It seems the candidate helicopters suffer from a case of reduced performance at 35 degrees C. !!!!!

Well, duh!
Though I fully support the idea of my tax dollars being spent on a Sea-King replacement, (hopefully in the near future), I think that money would be wasted if it was used to buy something so powerful that it would not suffer from some sort of performance degradation at 35 degrees C.

That sort of over-designing is what made the original EH101 contract so over-priced over 10 years ago.

Can't we just buy a product like the S92, NH90, or EH101 as they seem to meet the requirements of commercial and other military operators around the world already ??

We all know Jean Chretien will not buy any helicopters in the few days that he has remaining, so let's just hope Paul Martin does something soon, without blowing our money on some top brass's dreamship.

 

[cyclic monkey]

Not likely I'm afraid...........this has gone from interesting, to frustrating, and now embarrassing.

Read this little gem from the Globe and Mail's website.
You won't know whether to laugh or cry.....but you will know which helicopter they are looking at now.


Kabul — In the military, nothing breaks the ice between armies better than showing off your weapons.

As a way of trying to build relations with the Afghan military, the Canadian Forces airlifted two howitzer cannons to an Afghan military base in Kabul on Monday. But the exercise was about more than just public relations.

Canada's military was trying to get another message across — that it and the International Security Assistance Force, or ISAF, have capabilities that far outstrip those of the Afghan army.

"They can see that we're able to deploy air-mobile. We don't need our vehicles to move the guns," said Lieutenant Kathy Hanna, who was responsible for the big guns.

"We can deploy rapidly and over greater distances with helicopters."

Unfortunately, Canada doesn't actually have choppers in Afghanistan that are able to move a 105-mm howitzer.

Germany provided the ride for Monday's operation, deploying two CH-53 Sea Stallions, regarded as the workhorses of the skies.



Thanks Lieutenant Kathy, we salute you.

 

[tDawe]

No no no, its got nothing to do with performance over 35 degrees. The gov. is worried about the helicopters because they realized none of the aircraft were equipped with arrester hooks for carrier landings.

 

[donnybrook]

No matter how much the electronics suite was going to cost on the EH 101, there can be no logical explanation for wasting $500 million, half of the total cost of the helicopter procurement contract, and get nothing. This is not fiscal responsibility any way you slice it. Personally I think the military should get the fastest, most powerful, fire breathing, arse massaging, Gucci equipment they want. These people signed up for a job where their boss can legally and legitimately tell them to go and die. You want an espresso maker in your Sea King, here's the charge card...

 

[MagSeal]

Just remember that the 500 mil was in the initial contract as being payable should the deal fall thru. The government knew it and still felt that the contract was a bad idea. Our money wasted? ...Yes. But does that mean we should allow the EH 101 team to effectively use that money to 'bribe' back the rights to purchase their aircraft?

 

[donnybrook]

The EH 101 was originally the best choice, and so far, as far as I can decipher from all the crap floating around, there hasn't been an equivalent offered. There is no way I can wrap my little brain around everything that is going on with the MHP, but IMO the CF will be stuck with whatever they get for decades, so they should get the most capable A/C for their mission. Not necessarily the cheapest. I completely agree, however, that the punitive cost reimbursement should not be some sort of carrot dangled in front of the Politburo. I hadn't heard that this was happening.

 

[Over-Talk]

Donny, the original contract for 50 EH101s was for over $4 billion, the cancellation cost was $500 million (approximate numbers). i.e. about 1/8th. This is an appalling waste, I agree.
But do the maths.....that's an initial cost of $80 million per helicopter !!!!!
That contract was over-designed and over-priced. It needed to be cancelled. Not cancelling would have resulted in an even bigger waste of our tax dollars.

You say, "so far......there hasn't been an equivalent offered". Thank goodness.
We do not need, and cannot afford an equivalent to that particular machine.

Yes, our Forces deserve a top quality product, but let's remember that we don't have the need or cash for a dream-ship.
The commercial variant, fitted out for a particular role could probably suffice. After all, that's what SAR's EH101 Cormorants are.

You also said, "Personally I think the military should get the fastest, most powerful, fire breathing, arse massaging, Gucci equipment they want. These people signed up for a job where their boss can legally and legitimately tell them to go and die".
Some Nationalistic, Patriotic, and Militaristic fervour should not be stirred-up to the point we lose our focus on reality, especially when human lives and so many dollars are at stake.
We should give these guys what they NEED (and soon), not want. Also, let's not forget these guys CHOSE to sign-up for this type of job with this employer.

 

[Vortex Ring]

Yes the contract was big but it included a lot of hightech training, buildings and simulators too so the cost was not and won't be 80 million per machine.

As for signing up for the gig, you are correct and as you say, our country owes us a debt of honour to provide the right equipment for us to do our job within our mandate as described by a free democratic government we all elect.

The sad truth is that we have paid entirely too much already with the cancellation, add that to the Human Resources Development billions, the gun registry etc.......for goodness sakes.....

ok now I need my medication and a paper bag. :blink:

 

[donnybrook]

You also haven't tacked on the ever increasing cost of SeaKing maintenance, the manpower cost of writing and re-writing (and re-writing, again) the MHP RFP, the decreased effectivness of Navy ships, the low morale, loss of respect among our allies, the money wasted on recruiting (read: military spends millions to attract sailors to sinking ship) and the not-necessarily-tangible cost of a decades long political fiasco. This may not add up to hundreds of millions of dollars in hard numbers, but what will be the price to fix a soiled reputation...

 

[TDK]

Maybe it's time we let the Americans do what they've wanted to do for so long...

 

[RotorPilot]

December 3, 2003

HILL COY ON HELICOPTER-RORT CLAIM

By Mark Forbes
Defence Correspondent
Canberra

Defence Minister Robert Hill has avoided questions about the alleged rorting of a $5 billion tender to provide new military helicopters.
A full investigation has been ordered into claims that the bid was rigged in favour of the giant Sikorsky corporation, Senator Hill told parliament yesterday.

... ... ...

The claims involve alleged interference in contender proposals modelled by the DSTO. The organisation is alleged to have been repeatedly told by the army to change the guidelines of modelling of the Agusta Westland EH101 helicopter to diminish its competitiveness against the Sikorsky bid.