Interesting Tidbit

[Nightwatch]

What does Right to Work for Less have to do with those of us working under the Railway Labor Act?

The Right to Work for Less Law passed in Oklahoma and the TWU has done more to lower wages and destroy unionism than any Anti-Worker groups could ever hope to accomplish with an Amendment to 14b of Taft-Hartley.

Comments anyone?

Truth of the matter is Steve, the advocates of right-to-work laws contend the law creates jobs, while organized labor contends that the law reduces wages. You and your TWU Officers seem to now accept the idea that lowering wages for jobs is not only fine, but also constitutes outstanding union leadership. Who is it that has philosophical alliances with the right-to-work for less think tanks? More Jobs - Less Pay, looks to me to be exactly what you advocate more than anyone named Seham.

Which are you sir? An advocate or unionist?

 

[Buck]

And what is the TWU a union against lowering of wages and benefits or an advocate who lowers wages and benefits?

 

[Nightwatch]

And what is the TWU a union against lowering of wages and benefits or an advocate who lowers wages and benefits?

I believe the TWU is for the membership in it's entirity, not for a group of elitists. The TWU never has been for the lowing of wages as you describe. When a decision is made to go into bankruptcy or take concessions then whichever union is on the property looks bad. Do you advocate bankruptcy verses concessions such as UAL did?

 

[proAMFA]

Nightwatch,

The Pilots received over 9% is pay raises this year, we TWU members received little more than 1%. Part of their pay increases were in the form of snapbacks. They received snap backs-we did not. The truth of the matter is you get what you negotiate and the TWU simply did not negotiate a contract for us.

The TWU must go!

 

[amt for amfa]

Hey Steve as for your post about the 17.5% being AA's fault 5 out of the six people running for Randy McDonald's spot are running on the platform that its the TWU locals fault. You better get up to speed if you want in this race. By the way Randy McDonald was the sixth person and from what I here he has a big lead in the primaries. RUM@AA they call it CI at AA not RTW training and you will get it. AA just hired a level 6 to see to that.

 

[j7915]

What does Right to Work for Less have to do with those of us working under the Railway Labor Act?

The Right to Work for Less Law passed in Oklahoma and the TWU has done more to lower wages and destroy unionism than any Anti-Worker groups could ever hope to accomplish with an Amendment to 14b of Taft-Hartley.

Comments anyone?

Truth of the matter is Steve, the advocates of right-to-work laws contend the law creates jobs, while organized labor contends that the law reduces wages. You and your TWU Officers seem to now accept the idea that lowering wages for jobs is not only fine, but also constitutes outstanding union leadership. Who is it that has philosophical alliances with the right-to-work for less think tanks? More Jobs - Less Pay, looks to me to be exactly what you advocate more than anyone named Seham.

Dave, to quote a favorite line of the neo-cons, first they went after the guy down the street, (he didn't work under RLA) then... and so forth.

It only takes an act of Congress to eliminate the RLA. With the ecstatically selected anti-union President and the make up of the OK congressional delegation, do you really think they would stand up for your rights and uphold the RLA, when Oklahoma just went for RTW?

You are a perfect example of why the Guilds, AKA craft unions, died and keep dying. It is not all about the indivindual, much as you hate the slogan, its more about workers of the world unite, or you get picked of one by one, and no one will stand up for you.

 

[Nightwatch]

Nightwatch,

The Pilots received over 9% is pay raises this year, we TWU members received little more than 1%. Part of their pay increases were in the form of snapbacks. They received snap backs-we did not. The truth of the matter is you get what you negotiate and the TWU simply did not negotiate a contract for us.

The TWU must go!

Interesting, I have never seen a "snap-back" clause presented to any union while the Company was facing certain bankruptcy. Do you happen to have or can find that language that allowed them the snap back. Would make a good read, thank you.

Also pro, the TWU did not negotiate a contract, it was a concessionary package necessary for our continued existence, unless you're stating we would have been better off in bankruptcy.

 

[Decision 2004]

Dave, to quote a favorite line of the neo-cons, first they went after the guy down the street, (he didn't work under RLA) then... and so forth.

It only takes an act of Congress to eliminate the RLA. With the ecstatically selected anti-union President and the make up of the OK congressional delegation, do you really think they would stand up for your rights and uphold the RLA, when Oklahoma just went for RTW?

You are a perfect example of why the Guilds, AKA craft unions, died and keep dying. It is not all about the indivindual, much as you hate the slogan, its more about workers of the world unite, or you get picked of one by one, and no one will stand up for you.

What a fool in the making!

The Railway Labor Act is one of the most worker restrictive laws ever passed.

The DAY that CONGRESS removes the Railway Labor Act is the day the worker is free to strike without Government interference.

You guys really are pro-Corporation and anti_Worker!

Tell us, please, what part of the Railway Labor Act would we not be better off without next week? You sure don't think we need a law to be able to "organize" do you? Last I checked workers do not need laws to unify for a good cause.

That is the problem with AFL-CIO and Industrial Unionist, you guys think the politicians and the laws are in our favor. Truth is, these laws were written to stifle the worker from striking to protect National Security and Commerce. The same law that allows the President to prevent you from striking, you now fear could be removed?

I am getting ill hearing this cowardice pro-company talk all the time.

 

[Nightwatch]

Though I'm relatively new to this forum I see already that we are not up to speed with Decision 2004. Tell me sir, have you always been the correct one in all of your posts?

 

[Buck]

I believe the TWU is for the membership in it's entirety, not for a group of elitists. The TWU never has been for the lowing of wages as you describe. When a decision is made to go into bankruptcy or take concessions then whichever union is on the property looks bad. Do you advocate bankruptcy verses concessions such as UAL did?

Your beliefs are flawed. If the TWU was for the entire membership they. the TWU would not have had concessionary contracts since 1983. The TWU faithful have become accustom to concessions and division in every contract. If the TWU is not for lowering wages and benefits as I describe, could you sir explain in what way the TWU is for lowering of wages and benefits. It is evident that that is what the TWU does.

As for the advocacy of bankruptcy or not, I would have preferred that the TWU stood up to the company and have the company prove as to whether they really were going into bankruptcy. Evidence continues to appear that the company was instilling fear in the leadership of the TWU, who then placed that same fear within the membership. Even the existing Local Presidents are in discussion concerning the issues that lead up to the latest concessionary contract. The closing of Class II Stations being discussed today was one of the items in the concessionary negotiations. The threat of the maintenance bases being closed, the threat of Title II being farmed out. And the actual farm out of the fleet service cleaners I believe.

The point is that the company demanded and placed items of fear in front of a Presidents Council and the ATD / TWU Int'l and the TWU folded. The TWU runs around stating it's about jobs brother, but I say at what cost. All the TWU has done is delayed the layoffs and scared the membership.

What does Right to Work for Less have to do with those of us working under the Railway Labor Act?

 

[Steve Connell]

As for the advocacy of bankruptcy or not, I would have preferred that the TWU stood up to the company and have the company prove as to whether they really were going into bankruptcy. Evidence continues to appear that the company was instilling fear in the leadership of the TWU, who then placed that same fear within the membership. Even the existing Local Presidents are in discussion concerning the issues that lead up to the latest concessionary contract. The closing of Class II Stations being discussed today was one of the items in the concessionary negotiations. The threat of the maintenance bases being closed, the threat of Title II being farmed out. And the actual farm out of the fleet service cleaners I believe.

Buck, at what point would you believe? Does the The Vermont Plan ring a bell here? Does the fact that three different financial people came to the same conclusion? It is real easy to suggest it was a fluke, but the facts are the facts, and the membership, you and I, had our chance, but voted against, to follow the Company into bankruptcy.

Call AMFA central and ask Delle, step for step, how he would have handled the quagmire, can't wait for your resonse.

 

[Decision 2004]

Though I'm relatively new to this forum I see already that we are not up to speed with Decision 2004. Tell me sir, have you always been the correct one in all of your posts?

Nope, been wrong before. How about you?

 

[RUM@AA]

I believe the TWU is for the membership in it's entirity, not for a group of elitists. The TWU never has been for the lowing of wages as you describe. When a decision is made to go into bankruptcy or take concessions then whichever union is on the property looks bad. Do you advocate bankruptcy verses concessions such as UAL did?

I'll tell you what I advocate. It's called SENIORITY! Or at least it used to be called that, and I won't allow you to redefine it as elitism. You should have hit the street and I should have kept the pay and benifits I waited 25 years for.
How's that?
Membership in it's entirity my ass. What about the 2000 that DID get laid off? You friggin hypocrit. It's "membership in it's entirity" as long as YOU don't get laid off,
right?

 

[Nightwatch]

Nope, been wrong before. How about you?

Point made is this, you start many of your posts by namecalling. Yet you state you have been wrong previously, how can you justify your attacks on the other posters? And you stated you were an organizer of the AMFA, or someone did anyways.

AMFA's history states it was started out of strife, upset with the industrial union makeup. Yet you, as a representative of AMFA, revert to namecalling and denial of facts when confronted.

I am no teacher, but just possibly you should change your tactics. Ever think of approaching the pro TWUers a different way?

 

[Buck]

Buck, at what point would you believe? Does the The Vermont Plan ring a bell here? Does the fact that three different financial people came to the same conclusion? It is real easy to suggest it was a fluke, but the facts are the facts, and the membership, you and I, had our chance, but voted against, to follow the Company into bankruptcy.

Call AMFA central and ask Delle, step for step, how he would have handled the quagmire, can't wait for your resonse.

First of I believe nothing the TWU has to say. all they do is instill fear in the membership and have done so for twenty years. Why do I need to ask Delle anything, for you? If the Vermont Plan were the ultimate position then why are the Local Presidents questioning the moves they made? As you are fond of stating, you have not been here long. The TWU has been scaring the membership since 1983. Why should I believe them ever again.

And the point I would believe the at point which the union would show at least some backbone and push back against the company tactics that have garnered concessions in every contract over the last twenty years. Steve you are so use to taking concessions that it is a natural course for you to bring with you to American. I would really curious as to how many years you have worked for a major airline and of those years how many years were you unionized?

BTW, I can call AMFA central, but I cannot call TWU central.....