Information

[southwind]

If by "fair tax," you mean "flat tax," then we agree.



Where I came rom, the migrant workers worked harder and longer than anyone... and for a lot less $$$.




Um if they paid taxes, they wouldn't be evaders, now would they?




Please show me a drug dealer that files a W2. Any example will do.


Well, if you go to another country, you pay taxes on what you purchase, right?



Quite right. Those busting their butts in the middle class are getting hammered relative to those in the top brackets, thus the rationale for a flat tax. You earn it, you pay on it, and everyone pays the same percentage.Period.

How would you like to see your entire wages going into your bank account. NO federal income tax with-held.

Do yourself a favor and go to your local bookstore, spend 8 bucks, buy the fair tax book, read it ,then pass it on.

The fair tax would be the best thing that happened to this country since we declared indepedence from Britain !

 

[cooper43]

The Fair Tax is different than a flat tax. It is collected at the point of sale, so theoretically, it would be hard to evade.

Follow this link for Fair Tax Website Information

IMHO the flat tax would be a better tax than the sales tax. This is why I think so. A flat tax everyone pays as well as a sales tax, however if we had a higher sales tax then it would encourage people to spend thier money in another country say Canada or Europe. So the rich would travel (because they can afford to go other places to shop) and the poor who are stuck here and cant afford to go elsewhere, would still be paying more than thier fair share of taxes. This is why a flat tax for everyone would be more widely paid. People or corporations who make say $1,000,000.00 would pay say %10 and someone who makes $50,000.00 would pay %10. No loop holes no deductions, no tax breaks.

 

[Kev3188]

The Fair Tax is different than a flat tax.

I know.

I was just being a bit of a smart a$$ with Southwind. I forget that doesn't translate on the 'net so well.

Thanks for the link just the same!

 

[Kev3188]

How would you like to see your entire wages going into your bank account. NO federal income tax with-held.

I have no problem paying federal taxes. I actually use things like interstate highways and airports....I just want everyone to pay the same.

Do yourself a favor and go to your local bookstore, spend 8 bucks, buy the fair tax book, read it ,then pass it on.

The fair tax would be the best thing that happened to this country since we declared indepedence from Britain !

Already fairly well read on the concept. Thanks, though.

....So you're not going to answer any of the points I brought up with your last post, then?

 

[MMB]

... People or corporations who make say $1,000,000.00 would pay say %10 and someone who makes $50,000.00 would pay %10. No loop holes no deductions, no tax breaks.

No deductions?
So, if you and I both gross $100,000 a year, we both pay $10,000 in taxes.
Sounds fair, but...
Suppose you work in a warehouse, 1/2 mile from your home. You have no work related expenses.
Also suppose that I work delivering newspapers. Out of my $100,000 I have to purchase the papers. Say that comes to $75,000. I must also purchase and maintain a vehicle to deliver the papers with, and that comes to another $10,000.
Since you have no expenses, you pay $10,000 on your net of $100,000.
I do have expenses, and so must pay $10,000 on my net of $15,000.
After taxes, you keep $90,000 and I am left with $5,000.
Where is the fair part?
Not to mention, the flat INCOME tax does not do away with the IRS, nor all the related costs and burden of proof they demand.
A flat sales tax, along with heavy tariffs on goods purchased outside the U.S., taxes everyone equally.

 

[cooper43]

No deductions?
So, if you and I both gross $100,000 a year, we both pay $10,000 in taxes.
Sounds fair, but...
Suppose you work in a warehouse, 1/2 mile from your home. You have no work related expenses.
Also suppose that I work delivering newspapers. Out of my $100,000 I have to purchase the papers. Say that comes to $75,000. I must also purchase and maintain a vehicle to deliver the papers with, and that comes to another $10,000.
Since you have no expenses, you pay $10,000 on your net of $100,000.
I do have expenses, and so must pay $10,000 on my net of $15,000.
After taxes, you keep $90,000 and I am left with $5,000.
Where is the fair part?
Not to mention, the flat INCOME tax does not do away with the IRS, nor all the related costs and burden of proof they demand.
A flat sales tax, along with heavy tariffs on goods purchased outside the U.S., taxes everyone equally.

If you owned your own business, you would pay your flat tax on income not revenue whatever that may be. Your income would be your profit after the cost of your business. Make sense?

 

[1Conehead]

Why is it taking so long to get this moved to the water cooler?

 

[MMB]

If you owned your own business, you would pay your flat tax on income not revenue whatever that may be. Your income would be your profit after the cost of your business. Make sense?

Yes.
Ok, so we've gone from no deductions allowed to business deductions are allowed.
Next question: What would be included in allowed business deductions?
Purchase of raw materials?
Equipment purchase and upkeep?
Business travel?
Entertaining clients?
Entertaining potential clients?

 

[Kieran]

Continue to follow this one in the Water Cooler.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes.
Ok, so we've gone from no deductions allowed to business deductions are allowed.
Next question: What would be included in allowed business deductions?
Purchase of raw materials?
Equipment purchase and upkeep?
Business travel?
Entertaining clients?
Entertaining potential clients?

Exactly, thats why a flat tax would never work. The fact is that businesses are not as efficent as individuals and could never afford to pay the same flat tax on revenue as individuals are forced to pay.

 

[Bob Owens]

The Fair Tax is different than a flat tax. It is collected at the point of sale, so theoretically, it would be hard to evade.

Follow this link for Fair Tax Website Information

You are talking about a consumption tax, so those who only earn enough to survive end up paying tax with every dollar they ever see while those who earn huge surplusses of cash pay next to nothing.

I agree that the tax system is unfair. But we have to have taxes. Taxes are used to maintain the infrastructure of our Capitalist democracy. The question is who should carry the load? Nobody should get a free ride but clearly some benifit more from the system in place therefore they should carry more of the load.Keep in mind that the majority of poor people work for a living. We have been lead to believe that the poor benifit the most from our system. Their labor is often the basis for the extreme wealth of others. Think about that? The poor are the biggest benificiaries of our Capitalist Democracy? Does that make sense? If that was the case they wouldnt be poor. Clearly the rich benifit the most therefore they should pay the most. Thats the idea behind a progressive tax system.

A flat tax sounds good but there is no way at the end of the day that the earnings of the rich, where much of it is "unearned income", income from assets and not labor, would be taxed as much as the earnings of those who work for a living. Sure it may start off as all earnings are subject to the flat tax but over time there would be exemtions here and there and before you know it the rich would be paying nothing.

Corporations often pay no tax, often they cant, imposing a flat tax on corporate revenues would never work, they rarely earn enough and the margins between corporations from industry to industry vary to extremes. Despite the fact that the sole reason for the existance of most corporations is to provide profit to their owners we all subsidize corporations because in theory they in turn provide benifits to society by providing employment and products that enhance our way of life. When corporations (that enjoy the priviledged tax status of only paying taxes on their profits instead of revenue like every other legal person in this country) ship jobs overseas they should be penalized and be taxed on their revenues like the rest of us.

 

[MMB]

You are talking about a consumption tax, so those who only earn enough to survive end up paying tax with every dollar they ever see while those who earn huge surplusses of cash pay next to nothing.

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling."
You really should read a couple of the models before you start running around like chicken little.

 

[Bob Owens]

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling."
You really should read a couple of the models before you start running around like chicken little.

I read the link. Ironically the home page cites our rebellion in 1776 against unfair taxes as the basis to shift from income tax to consumption tax. Wasnt the "Tea Tax" a consumption Tax?

You should pay tax on what you earn. Earned income should be taxed at a lower rate than unearned income. Its long been an accepted standard. Even the Bible cites give to the lord a percentage of what you reap, so it goes back a long time.

I am not against a tax on consumption but at the very first recession, a tax that penalizes people who spend when they dont have to would be immediately revoked in the name of economic stimulous.

 

[cooper43]

You are talking about a consumption tax, so those who only earn enough to survive end up paying tax with every dollar they ever see while those who earn huge surplusses of cash pay next to nothing.

I agree that the tax system is unfair. But we have to have taxes. Taxes are used to maintain the infrastructure of our Capitalist democracy. The question is who should carry the load? Nobody should get a free ride but clearly some benifit more from the system in place therefore they should carry more of the load.Keep in mind that the majority of poor people work for a living. We have been lead to believe that the poor benifit the most from our system. Their labor is often the basis for the extreme wealth of others. Think about that? The poor are the biggest benificiaries of our Capitalist Democracy? Does that make sense? If that was the case they wouldnt be poor. Clearly the rich benifit the most therefore they should pay the most. Thats the idea behind a progressive tax system.

A flat tax sounds good but there is no way at the end of the day that the earnings of the rich, where much of it is "unearned income", income from assets and not labor, would be taxed as much as the earnings of those who work for a living. Sure it may start off as all earnings are subject to the flat tax but over time there would be exemtions here and there and before you know it the rich would be paying nothing.

Corporations often pay no tax, often they cant, imposing a flat tax on corporate revenues would never work, they rarely earn enough and the margins between corporations from industry to industry vary to extremes. Despite the fact that the sole reason for the existance of most corporations is to provide profit to their owners we all subsidize corporations because in theory they in turn provide benifits to society by providing employment and products that enhance our way of life. When corporations (that enjoy the priviledged tax status of only paying taxes on their profits instead of revenue like every other legal person in this country) ship jobs overseas they should be penalized and be taxed on their revenues like the rest of us.

Very well stated, I vote for what you said. There are too many people who ARE blue colar workers and yet they vote and preach as if they were very wealthy. I think they have been fooled into believing they are rich. Everything they have worked for all their lives could be taken away from them in a new york minute, with only one corporate decision. Why do they make statements like "everyone who wants to make it can if they work hard enough" or "if you dont like what your company has done to your job, leave". These kind of statements are stupid IMHO. Why should we as labourers do more today than we did yesterday for even less money, and just be happy about it. When you pick up a paper and read that those who are taking your pay and benefits (CEO's) are making even more. I think I heard on the radio last week that in America the average CEO's make about 400x's what the average worker at thier company earns. Compare this to CEO's in Europe it was something like 20x more than the average worker at thier company. And Europe was the closest to the US. It is just wrong and we have the right to be upset and voice our opinions on the matter. Ok my 2cents.