Industry Observers See Problems

[Boeing4me]

The PBGC is not funded by tax dollars, the pensions are paid out from the assets turned over to them and by insurance premius on pension payments by employers.

[post="270304"][/post]​

It is my understanding the assets turned over by both US and UA are so severley underfunded that in order for PBGC to pay out at the mandated levels it will require additional taxpayer funding to make up the shortfall.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[TheDog2004]

I think the problem with the Airbus deal is that it looks like a thinly veiled bribe to buy Airbus planes. it all depends on the conditions of the financing deal.

It also shows that Airbus is scared.

 

[deltawatch]

I will be more than happy for Airbus to invest in the combined US/AWA.  But first they need to reimburse the US taxpayers who are now carrying the load for the pensions assumed by the government.

It is simply not right for the taxpayers to assume costs for a failing company (US) only to allow a foreign government controled entity (Airbus) to provide jobs and income to Europeans.  I think that this aspect alone makes this deal stink for every taxpaer in America.

[post="270228"][/post]​

There’s a bigger picture here, the airline industry is transforming itself. The government is assisting in an orderly transition. The cost of taking over the pensions is peanuts compared to the rewards the nation and consumers will reap from much lower fares. The legacies have kept markets inflated over the years to meet their obligations. Without over sight 100’s of thousands of 40-60 year old workers would loose everything. Even with oversight they have lost billions. Ask any pilot. Consumers will be paying less on all flights, not just select ones soon.

 

[funguy2]

could the order be changed in a way where they dont have to purchase the 350 but could say opt for either the 330 or even 340 and so forth?

[post="270195"][/post]​

I suspect that everything is negotiable at some point.

If you recall, HP was a launch customer for the A318 (along with TWA at the time), and HP later renegotiated its way out of the A318 (a year or so ago?)

 

[funguy2]

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that we taxpayers are supporting the pensions of all of the above mentioned airlines (plus those from many other industries) - My gripe here is that a foreign entity (Airbus) is now in a position to take advantage of the goodwill of the American taxpayers to the benefit their own countries - mainly France, Germany and UK.

I also understand that Airbus is a customer for some US based companies and does provide some employment here in the US ( i.e. Hamilton-Sunstrand, Pratt & Whitney, GE, etc.)

What really stinks here is that Airbus would not be investing in US/AWA unless they thought that they would be making a decent return on thier investment at some point in the future. We are givving away jobs and profits courtesy of the taxpayers to the detrement of our own domestic aerospace industry.

Please note that I have no realtionship present, past or future with Boeing. I simply like their metal.

[post="270298"][/post]​

It could also be argued that Airbus (which received subsidies from the EU) is financing low airfares in the USA by helping US Airways survive. The thought here is this... If US Airways survives in some form, the capacity reduction will not be as great as if it were to liquidate. This lack of capacity reduction will continue to keep the industry in a state of over-supply of seats, and thus airfares low...

So, assuming this deal does through, it could be argued that EU citizens are subsidizing low airfares for grandma in Albany...

Its not an argument that Airbus or US-HP could use to defend the situation... But its logical none the less.

 

[Boeing4me]

It could also be argued that Airbus (which received subsidies from the EU) is financing low airfares in the USA by helping US Airways survive. The thought here is this... If US Airways survives in some form, the capacity reduction will not be as great as if it were to liquidate. This lack of capacity reduction will continue to keep the industry in a state of over-supply of seats, and thus airfares low...

So, assuming this deal does through, it could be argued that EU citizens are subsidizing low airfares for grandma in Albany...

Its not an argument that Airbus or US-HP could use to defend the situation... But its logical none the less.

[post="270356"][/post]​

You definitely have a good point here. It's hard to argue your logic.