If There Was a Merger

[CynicalResAgent]

I think FL/WN combo would be good for both employee groups. To date WN I cannot think of WN ever shriking to profitability, I belive when they acquired Morris Air they might have dropped a few cities (for some reason I thought they flew to EUG but I may be wrong) but they are always growing as taking on new employees seems to be part of their cost structure. However that very factor may not be in favor of WN combining with anyone since they would be taking on employees that are not starting out at the bottom of the payscale.

The 717 could be used by WN and would allow them to continue flying to some smaller destinations like MLI or PHF that normally could not expect to attract service from WN. FL has gates/acces to DCA,LGA, ATL, MSP,BOS,CLT and many other business traveler destinations. Also it seems like their employee culture would be best suited to merging with WN and not bring along as many negatives that many other carriers would. I'm not saying it would be easy but rather seems like it would be the easiest.

 

[citrus jock]

I think FL/WN combo would be good for both employee groups. To date WN I cannot think of WN ever shriking to profitability, I belive when they acquired Morris Air they might have dropped a few cities (for some reason I thought they flew to EUG but I may be wrong) but they are always growing as taking on new employees seems to be part of their cost structure. However that very factor may not be in favor of WN combining with anyone since they would be taking on employees that are not starting out at the bottom of the payscale.

The 717 could be used by WN and would allow them to continue flying to some smaller destinations like MLI or PHF that normally could not expect to attract service from WN. FL has gates/acces to DCA,LGA, ATL, MSP,BOS,CLT and many other business traveler destinations. Also it seems like their employee culture would be best suited to merging with WN and not bring along as many negatives that many other carriers would. I'm not saying it would be easy but rather seems like it would be the easiest.

WN's CEO was recently quoted as saying that since they are the only ones with fuel hedged enough to stay in the black (with current oil prices), if they acquired anyone right now, they'd be making the decision to spend $ to buy a money-losing operation. We have the one of the lowest, if not the lowest, non-fuel cost in the industry, but the fuel they have hedged is for a specific quantity. If they acquired us, the fuel for the acquired aircraft would be at our hedge price or worse. Our break even load factor right now is about 83%. This just wouldn't be a good move on WN's part.

 

[CynicalResAgent]

what you said makes sense.....which sometimes means the opposite is done in this industry. anyway, point taken. Since this thread is basically a what if, I was just adding that WN would be the best option from an employee side. Everything else I added after that was a manic afterthought ^_^ :huh:

 

[bwipilot]

Since this thread is basically a what if, I was just adding that WN would be the best option from an employee side.

It would be the best for the Air Tran employees but the Southwest employees would be very mindful of seniority integration. Some of the wish list integration scenarios out on the street are toxic to SWA personnel. For example, slotting 7 SWA, then 2 Air tran pilots down the list would screw the junior SWA Captains and FO's from a career expectations point of view. For them, internal growth is much preferred.

 

[citrus jock]

It would be the best for the Air Tran employees but the Southwest employees would be very mindful of seniority integration. Some of the wish list integration scenarios out on the street are toxic to SWA personnel. For example, slotting 7 SWA, then 2 Air tran pilots down the list would screw the junior SWA Captains and FO's from a career expectations point of view. For them, internal growth is much preferred.

Seniority-wise, using your example, everyone, except the 1st 7 SW pilots, would be "screwed". If I was #1 in seniority at AirTran (hey, a guy can dream, can't he??? ), I would go from #1 to #8 in the merged company. The #1 F/O at AirTran, close to upgrading and being the #400-something Captain at AirTran, would have his career expectations fall by the wayside post-merger. Trust me; barring not having a job (and we're no where near that point yet), we too prefer the internal growth thing.

 

[QA4Jet-A]

IMHO, not a Company statement nor speaking for anyone but myself, my department is very small, Maintenance & Engineering, Quality Assurance, I'd say we are best to stand as is, for now. Not to say this Airline won't be bought in the future but I would not worry about DOH/Blending seniorities, etc. We could blend in well with the right situation as we have a damn good team and are not represented by any Union nor need to be. My management team does a great job of keeping the Family on board with where we are and where we may be headed. Of course this could all change down the road and I'd probably be cool with how it plays out. Perhaps not. I don't need to be 'Top Gun' in what I do, just as long as my work keeps me employed, I can improve our capabilities with our vendors to be compliant with all Regulatory Requirements and I can make it to retirement, which was supposed to be soon but with the price of gas, may extend another 13 years, if i am still able to walk. I do know many peers of other carriers and have met few I couldn't work with. As for the future, my wish would be for us to be able to weather this storm and stay in business. If we are unable or circumstances arise that change things and I am let go, so be it. I know how to fuel an airplane and Citrus Jock will fly knowing he has good gas on board if I get his gate. Heck, I'd even bring a bag of grease to share before flight! Chow !

 

[southwind]

I still say a Soutwest/Air Tran merger would drive most of the weaklings totally out of the market!

Well you do know that when you DON'T follow maintanence procedures and you don't spend money on those procedures , you'll always show a profit. Just don't let anyone find out !

 

[citrus jock]

Well you do know that when you DON'T follow maintanence procedures and you don't spend money on those procedures , you'll always show a profit. Just don't let anyone find out !

So for however many consecutive quarters/years that WN has posted a profit, that's how they did it??? :blink: Whenever any other airline has been fined for not following required mx procedures, they did it, every time, in order to show a profit??? :blink: Did those airlines, who've ever been fined for mx violations, show a profit every time??? :blink: Or, is someone a little jealous?

To stay on topic/keep the moderator happy: No, I don't think there'll be a merger between FL and WN.

 

[V1]

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008...bed-stocks.aspx

ValueJet I mean Airtran is as worthless as its stock has shown it to be. Did Southwest buy ATA or any of its pieces? Southwest will not buy ValueTran or any of its pieces for the same reason. Now a merger is a different story all together, which is only a pipe dream for all you SCABS. Get your SCABlications ready to apply. Maybe you’ll get a job in Bangladesh as an English speaking lost baggage claim advisor.

 

[Richard]

MOD NOTE: The poster above now has 7 days to pause and reflect on the rules of the board.

The use of the word scab directed at any specific individual or GROUP is specifically prohibited by the rules of the board.

We will set up a separate forum for the discussion of the CONCEPT of scabs vs. unions, but again, anyone directing the comment specifically at ANYONE is gone for a week.

NO PERSONAL INSULTS/ATTACKS/NAMECALLING will be permitted on these boards EVER.

 

[citrus jock]

MOD NOTE: The poster above now has 7 days to pause and reflect on the rules of the board.

The use of the word scab directed at any specific individual or GROUP is specifically prohibited by the rules of the board.

We will set up a separate forum for the discussion of the CONCEPT of scabs vs. unions, but again, anyone directing the comment specifically at ANYONE is gone for a week.

NO PERSONAL INSULTS/ATTACKS/NAMECALLING will be permitted on these boards EVER.

I would guess that the percentage of employees at AirTran who've ever crossed a picket line is less than 1%. Maybe name-calling is V1's way of demonstrating he has nothing intelligent to say, or it's a way of compensating for his inferiority complex. Either way, it's sad.

But what REALLY pisses me off is his (and other's) misspelling of Valujet. Let's get this straight guys and gals: It's V-A-L-U-J-E-T. There is NO "E" after the "U". Some versions have the "J" capitalized, but under no circumstances is there an "E" after the "U"! Got it????? If you're going to make fun of someone, let's get the spelling correct, OK?

Thanks for letting me vent, and no, I don't think there will be a merger between WN and FL.

 

[scuba]

Southwest would have no need to buy AirTran. But those folks at Midwest are looking at a different story than if they had let AirTran buy them a year ago.

AirTran doesn't bring enough to the table, plus the B717's would double the work at WN which would defeat their big advantage they have on everybody.

That being said, is AirTran going to help push Midwest out or not? I noticed they added flights in some markets only to take them away, much like Vanguard did in the past.

 

[QA4Jet-A]

Southwest would have no need to buy AirTran. But those folks at Midwest are looking at a different story than if they had let AirTran buy them a year ago.

AirTran doesn't bring enough to the table, plus the B717's would double the work at WN which would defeat their big advantage they have on everybody.

That being said, is AirTran going to help push Midwest out or not? I noticed they added flights in some markets only to take them away, much like Vanguard did in the past.

Help who push Midwest out of the market? Your statement leads to a conspiracy. Yes, AirTran adds, then removes, flights, when the profit doesn't come in. Same as any other airline. If you have been on vacation to another planet since May, your last post here, you may have noticed that the cost of Jet-A has risen a tad. Also, about every other airline is doing some sort of re-structuring. It will get uglier before it gets prettier.... if it even gets back to the point of 'Butterface'! At this point in time, I doubt any mergers are a good idea, although Delta & Northwest seem to think differently. Here's an idea for you... AirTran gets bought out by Southwest and sells all the B-717s to Midwest, then Northwest dumps Midwest and uses the 717s to replace the DC-9s, that Delta will dump anyways after the proposed merger goes through. Brilliant!

 

[scuba]

My point about Midwest vs AirTran is this....

1. AirTran attempted to purchase Midwest much to the displeasure of the regular Midwest pax.
2. Midwest was taken private by TPG with the assistance of NW. (We all know NW will protect their own turf)
3. AirTran announces expansions in markets where Midwest flies, only to reduce them after Midwest announces massive cuts in service, (37 to 25 planes.)

So, at the root of the quesiton was, when is AirTran going to put Midwest out of business?

 

[whlinder]

2. Midwest was taken private by TPG with the assistance of NW. (We all know NW will protect their own turf)

AirTran was outbid by TPG/NW for Midwest. TPG/NW presented a higher, all-cash offer for existing Midwest stock than AirTran did, and AirTran's bid was part cash/part AAI stock. After what has happened to the airline stocks not named LUV since then I would say Midwest stockholders made out like bandits.

AirTran isn't going to put Midwest of out business. Midwest will go out of business when TPG and NW decide it isn't worth it to keep their failed investment alive. Which might be pretty soon.