IAM files for mediation at WN

[Kev3188]

Does the Accident Investigation Team noted in your link cover all types of accidents (OJI's, A/C damage, etc.) , or is it more of a "Go team" kind of deal should the unthinkable happen?

 

[WNMECH]

Does the Accident Investigation Team noted in your link cover all types of accidents (OJI's, A/C damage, etc.) , or is it more of a "Go team" kind of deal should the unthinkable happen?

I believe it refers to our "major" aircraft accident investigation go team only, and I don't know what the contract language is that they are working on.

 

[Kev3188]

Ok thanks!

 

[WorldTraveler]

We are still making progress in negotiations albeit slow due to the small number of days scheduled for talks.
I don't think mediation will be asked for this year. We have plenty of things to work on before a total impasse.
 
http://amfa11.com/file_cabinet/SWA_Drawer/CN/AMFA%20SWA%20Technician%20Negotiations%20Update23.pdf
 
On Wednesday, the day began with both committees doing a review of where we are article-by-article. The review showed: we have tentatively agreed on twelve articles (1, 3, 7, 16, 17, 18, 19, 22, 25, 26, 27, and 28); there are five articles tabled or at an impasse, four by our Committee and one by the Company (8, 11, 12, 21, and 23); there are five articles our Committee owes a counter or a response (4, 5, 6, 20, and 24); there are three articles the Company owes a counter or response (4, 10, and 13); and there are four articles and two letters of agreements to officially open and work through (2, 14, 15, and 29, LOA 1, and 2). As has been mentioned in previous updates, we have had brief discussions on Article 2: Scope, LOA 1, and the Company’s concept on pay.

given that the last one is really the one that is most critical to reaching an agreement, the fact that "concept" is all that has all been reached, there is a long ways to go.

Did the company simply refuse to get past the "concept" stage in discussions - to cause a request for mediation?

Is the same "concept of pay" as far as the other discussions have gotten?

 

[WNMECH]

given that the last one is really the one that is most critical to reaching an agreement, the fact that "concept" is all that has all been reached, there is a long ways to go.Did the company simply refuse to get past the "concept" stage in discussions - to cause a request for mediation?Is the same "concept of pay" as far as the other discussions have gotten?

I am speaking about AMFA and the mechanics, not the IAM. I was answering SWAMT that we mechanics are not near asking for mediation.
The company has made several presentations to our committee about "their" concepts at the beginning of the process.
Articles on wage rules and pay rates haven't even been opened yet.
These are always the last articles to open.

No concept on pay has been "reached" or agreed to.

 

[robbedagain]

Good luck to all at WN during your negotiations

 

[swamt]

We are still making progress in negotiations albeit slow due to the small number of days scheduled for talks.
I don't think mediation will be asked for this year. We have plenty of things to work on before a total impasse.
 
http://amfa11.com/file_cabinet/SWA_Drawer/CN/AMFA%20SWA%20Technician%20Negotiations%20Update23.pdf
 
[SIZE=11.5pt]On Wednesday, the day began with both committees doing a review of where we are article-by-article. The review showed: we have tentatively agreed on twelve articles (1, 3, 7, 16, 17, 18, 19, 22, 25, 26, 27, and 28); there are five articles tabled or at an impasse, four by our Committee and one by the Company (8, 11, 12, 21, and 23); there are five articles our Committee owes a counter or a response (4, 5, 6, 20, and 24); there are three articles the Company owes a counter or response (4, 10, and 13); and there are four articles and two letters of agreements to officially open and work through (2, 14, 15, and 29, LOA 1, and 2). As has been mentioned in previous updates, we have had brief discussions on Article 2: Scope, LOA 1, and the Company’s concept on pay. [/SIZE]

I understand what you are saying. I did not mean we will file for mediation soon, but I do in fact see us getting there soon.  It may not be this year as you say, but, it won't be long after the new year as the ranks are getting tired of waiting.  The company hold out is very obvious and getting very old.  
  JS has moved on for a reason, we will all find out why in the next few months.  BTW where is he going WN?  And why?  Only time will tell, and we will all see it later down the road, promise you that one...

 

[WorldTraveler]

how long was mediation with the dispatchers?

 

 

[swamt]

I am speaking about AMFA and the mechanics, not the IAM. I was answering SWAMT that we mechanics are not near asking for mediation.
The company has made several presentations to our committee about "their" concepts at the beginning of the process.
Articles on wage rules and pay rates haven't even been opened yet.
These are always the last articles to open.

No concept on pay has been "reached" or agreed to.

And as you have staed in a previous posting, as long as they (as a group) are showing progress even if it is little, but progress, the NMB will not allow it to go to mediation, they will simply tell both sides, or at least encourage both sides to continue nego's on their own.  
You should't have to answer to the individual you did above.  Report him, I did, and the more that do the moderators will start listening.  I do have him on ignore, but when people do respond to him then those post still show up.  He is dying to get info out of you because he doesn't know.  Report him it does help.
As far as progress goes, I was also told that the nego's sessions for 20 and 21st were canceled due to moving backwards in the last sessions, and this came from an observer that was there for both days.  Maybe he is lacking some info or he is just not telling all that was discussed.

 

[WorldTraveler]

report someone because they want to participate in a conversation but you don't? You are severely disconnected from reality.

In case you missed it, airlines are highly public companies that have responsibilities to convey significant information to its shareholders. Thus, the progress of your labor talks will likely continue to be discussed in the media - just as they are at other carriers when the process does not go smoothly.

Further, it is more than ironic how much you advocate publicly for labor causes on this site and involve yourself in discussions involving other carriers but you now want to avoid talking about what is going on at WN and its labor discussions, including asking the tough questions which should be asked.

What happens at WN is highly relevant to the industry and to WN and its plans. I wish WN and its people well but no one can deny that the atmosphere in these negotiations has got to be different than they were in the past.

 

[700UW]

You don't have to show progress or lack of to go to mediation, you are confusing mediation and an impasse.

 

[WNMECH]

I wish WN and its people well but no one can deny that the atmosphere in these negotiations has got to be different than they were in the past.

I can deny it.
The only difference so far seems to be that the company has a few more "wants" and are calling them "must haves".
These things will not be given away without them being bought out of our contract.
Even then, some things will never pass a vote if they are in a TA.

So negotiations will continue until no progress can be made.
We will see if things are different if the company stops negotiating.
Both sides are still making progress right now.

 

[WNMECH]

And as you have staed in a previous posting, as long as they (as a group) are showing progress even if it is little, but progress, the NMB will not allow it to go to mediation, they will simply tell both sides, or at least encourage both sides to continue nego's on their own.  
You should't have to answer to the individual you did above.  Report him, I did, and the more that do the moderators will start listening.  I do have him on ignore, but when people do respond to him then those post still show up.  He is dying to get info out of you because he doesn't know.  Report him it does help.
As far as progress goes, I was also told that the nego's sessions for 20 and 21st were canceled due to moving backwards in the last sessions, and this came from an observer that was there for both days.  Maybe he is lacking some info or he is just not telling all that was discussed.

I can ignore posts without putting someone on ignore or reporting them.

If I only got to speak to people I agreed with on here, I wouldn't post at all.

 

[WorldTraveler]

wnmech,

and I would dare so you show more maturity than some people on here - or in the world as a whole.

We don't have the luxury of listening to or reading only from those that agree with us.

I agree with the overall sense of negotiations that you present, in theory, but I simply think that this round will be more difficult for all of the WN labor groups just because WN is now competing more and more with the same legacy carriers that it once was able to directly avoid competing with.

Now, larger and larger parts of WN's route system are directly competitive with WN's competitors; in the past WN could get by with labor costs higher than its peers because WN's costs elsewhere were lower, in part because of higher efficiency.

Now, other carriers have cut their costs, are growing as aggressively as WN once did, and are becoming more efficient. The big 4 are now more and more alike from a revenue and network standpoint than they have ever been before; no carrier can have costs that are significantly higher than its direct competitors.

 

[WNMECH]

The big 4 are now more and more alike from a revenue and network standpoint than they have ever been before; no carrier can have costs that are significantly higher than its direct competitors.

WN does not have to have costs in EVERY area lower than the competition.
Our overall costs are NOT significantly higher than them.

We keep our costs low in many other ways better than others so we can make good wages.

I believe that our higher wages put the pressure on our competitors to increase wages. How productive and outgoing are employees that are under paid and keep seeing their wages and benefits decrease while their management keeps raking in huge bonuses?

This company has shared the wealth and it shows in productivity and customer satisfaction.
We will see if WN thinks it is a good idea to make its employees as unhappy and disgruntled as those of our competitors.

It has been a core principle at WN to take care of the employees first, and they will go the extra mile to take care of customers.