How Soon Till U Is Broke?

[PITbull]

Row, my friend, we all know these realities.

Crisis concessions can never be had or achieved if management continues to take and appreciate high compensation levels just to retain them. THEY AREN'T PERFORMING! Not only that, you can't get there if your relationship with employees are so poor...Dave can attest. This is The U Board's problem and lack of insight to make changes tied to performance. They are "old school".

What you fail to realize from your "outside perch" what we on the inside see so clearly is that the industry has changed and labor is in the process of this transformation along with the industry (U was FIRST, and we as labor have already conceded twice). However, what is NOT transforming with the industry is senior mangment compensation.

There are many educated employees on the street that are very very capable of doing the jobs of this present management who also vould bring years of a historical perspective and know what works. They would do it for less pay than those who are in place. There are also many well educated graduates coming out of the schools that would love to have the jobs of these managment types.

If retention bonsuses are in the works to be distributed on a quarterly basis to senior management along with the other group of management who will receive a 4% increase instead....I AM GOING TO HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WITH THIS.

Lakefield has approved such a thing already I am told. I will wait to hear it from the horse before I flip out. I think Bonehead and Lakefield don't know enough about the industry and can't afford to lose even the "bad help" that is in place. Now they want to pay them more. I hear Cohen got a piece of some action to prevent his departure on Friday.

AFA will wait to pose the tough questions to Lakefield come next week. <_<


What you seem to not conceptualize is that no one wants to let U die into oblivion. Bronner is now "front and center stage" along with his side kick. Obviously there is money to be made. Loads of it here. They just want more cost reductions to get into the black much much faster. Most folks don't like sitting on these kinds of investments for long because the airlines are so effected by economic conditions.

Siegel not only walks with $4.5 mil but he has 1.47 milion shares of restricted stock that will be able to b e exercised starting Jan. 2005. He's still a big player. Not bad for being here two years.

I think there are thousands of people in the field that would take his place and most of managment for much less compensation.

I know I would, and I am no dum bell.

 

[savyinvestor]

The IAM met with Carlos Bonilla, Bush's economic advisor right after 9/11 and Mr Bonilla informed Robert Roach, Tom Buffenbarger and others that airline employees make too much money and the ATSB will ensure to lower that!

A certain captain ONLY makes about $ 200,000 per year. Doesn't seem over paid to the ordinary wage earner IMHO. Savy :down:

 

[BoeingBoy]

Savy,

I'm still scratching my head over that one ($200,000 per). Only thing way I can possibly come up with that is to count the "Davy Dollars" (Brucie Bucks??) and hope they get paid. And that's for me with a lot less time left, hence more going into the DC Plan.

Jim

 

[savyinvestor]

Savy,

I'm still scratching my head over that one ($200,000 per). Only thing way I can possibly come up with that is to count the "Davy Dollars" (Brucie Bucks??) and hope they get paid. And that's for me with a lot less time left, hence more going into the DC Plan.

Jim

Right on Jim. I wish you only the best and I mean that sincerely! Savy

 

[700UW]

A certain captain ONLY makes about $ 200,000 per year. Doesn't seem over paid to the ordinary wage earner IMHO. Savy :down:

The IAM does not represent pilots, the comment was aimed at mechanic and related and fleet and customer service and f/a.


Where did my post go?

 

[airbiiguy]

pilots make too much.......not ramp guys and counter agents.

 

[bofie]

everybody but me makes too much

 

[PHL]

pilots make too much.......not ramp guys and counter agents.

I suppose it's all relative.

To make a blanket statement that "pilots make too much" is a sweeping generalization that, in all likelihood, offends most of them.

Those $200K pilots are far and few between. Polished with many years of experience in all types of aircraft and weather. Why not comment on the hoards of $30-$50K pilots. There's far more of them, and that number will increase as the senior $200K's start facing mandatory retirement.

But I suppose you could have chosen that line of work if you really wanted it. Building time instructing in single engine Cessnas for $8/hour. Stepping up to a larger single engine hauling checks for $10/hour(if you're lucky). Stepping up to a Cessna 414 or Piper Cheyenne and hauling charters for $12/hour. That's your first 5-7 years after spending about $5-$6K on your private pilot certification(or more $$ if you enrolled in a part 141 school). Now you're in debt already because you're pursuing your dream of becoming a pilot, but haven't made more than a $20K salary in the past 7 years. You fly at all odd hours, on demand, on holidays, in crappy weather for sometimes crappy customers. But the promise of big metal awaits.....

So you get that interview with a commuter. Mesa. ASA. Comair. Allegheny. Fly the right seat of a Dash 8 for $25K/year. Whoo Hoo!! You're rich. It's now been about 8-9 years since you began chasing your dream of that $200K job. Is it still worth it? Abso-friggin-lutely. Pilots are in it for the pure enjoyment of aviating. I doubt any of them got into it because of the money.

Hospital support staff, like techs, nurses, etc. complain about Doctors making too much money, too. I know a Vascular Surgeon who just entered a practice after about 10 years of med school, residency, etc. She has $300K in student loans to repay before she can enjoy her $175K salary in Boston - one of the most expensive cities to live in.

It's all relative.....

 

[MarkMyWords]

other group of management who will receive a 4% increase instead....I AM GOING TO HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WITH THAT.

Let me ask you this......Did AFA get a 2% raise this year? Did AFA get stock options? Were you upset because the Pilots got a 2% raise and 19% stock equity? How about when the TWU, IAM-M and CWA got their raises and stock options?

Then why would you be ticked off because the low-middle level managers get a 4% raise and NO stock options?

While I agree that I am not a fan of retention bonuses.....the 4% raises were for the low-mid level managers, non-contract and clerical employees, not the executives. There is a difference when you toss around the term management.

 

[cavalier]

the term management.

This term implies a total failure, a losing proposition. Like the losing football team the losing baseball team. So you have way less then stellar performance being rewarded, so if they are rewarded even for failure, what incentive do they have to care what happens, plus the fact it is just WRONG. The mid-level management you speak of are not rocket scientists either and have pulled some real boners I could spell out but won't. Same old same old, like bald tires with the threads showing, we all know they are failing us. This is why there are the feelings, the sentiments.

 

[700UW]

Sorry Mark the IAM did not recieve a raise and they are not raises, they are partial snapbacks.

And if the company wants concessions I guess they need to lead by example and start at the top, why did dave make more then his counterparts at larger airlines?

If I screwed up I would be fired, when executives screw up they get richer, the whole thing is insane!

And answer this mark, we have over 100 less employees at CLT line maintenance yet we have more mechanic and utility foreman then ever, they keep hiring, not replacements, but adding. Makes no sense, four managers one director and umpteen foreman, crazy.

 

[PITbull]

Mark,

First, I cite these increase raise issues because according to management, we are going off a cliff. No? So far, Bronner and company has managed to give Siegel his $4.5 Mil, additonal increases to senior mangement in the form of future bonuses and 4% to the rest of mangement types.

However, when it comes to Labor, everything is on the table. That includes addtional wage concessions and benefits. So, does those raises at present make rational sense to you? If it does, it could be because of your biased position of your anticipation in receiving it.

Before you go on your "band wagon" against labor's protest on this issue, you and I need to be reading from the same page....

Secondly, the 2% raise was no raise for Labor... it's a "snap back" return of partial wages we gave in 2002. The 8.4.% we gave in 2002,brought our wages to the year 1996, with the additional 5% that everyone gave, took us to 1989 scale. That was returned last summer to every employee.

In our May 2000 contract, AFA was to receive 11% over 5 year period, but that was all taken away including the 8.4% additonal. At one point last year AFA had given in wages the 11% forfeiture, 5% plus the 8.4%. Total:24.4% wage give back alone. Counting the reserves who gave all the aforemetioned plus an average of an additional 30% with the implementation of the "Time/Balance Reserve" System this past November.

What has been "snap backed" to all employees is the 5% deferral. However for labor these are "snap back" returns. Which AFA received 2% in January. However Medical increased another 15% at the same time...thank you very much.

When at such time AFA and the rest of LABOR is all "snap backed" with their wages that have been given since these were not to be permanent "give-backs" (unless management was deceptive with that premise), then we can consider any future increases as raises.

However, if we go into future negotiations, then once again, all that, PLUS will be returned back to management and we will be at square one again.

With the stock. AFA received 90 shares which were heavily taxed. (The feel-good stock is worth about $206 at present. That isn't even 1 month sick pay penalty.


Your logic with stock and raises runs on the same gamet as..."Hey, I take filet mignon and you get bread and water....but at least we both are eating aren't we???

Give me a break and try to keep it real, pal. :down:

 

[PITbull]

Hospital support staff, like techs, nurses, etc. complain about Doctors making too much money, too. I know a Vascular Surgeon who just entered a practice after about 10 years of med school, residency, etc. She has $300K in student loans to repay before she can enjoy her $175K salary in Boston - one of the most expensive cities to live in.

It's all relative.....

Nurses do not "complain" about what Doctors and surgeons make. That just doesn't occur.

No one is complaining about pilot salaries except USA320Pilot, who so desperately wants to hold on to "his" and throw everyone else over board to keep it.

 

[autofixer]

Nurses do not "complain" about what Doctors and surgeons make. That just doens't occur.

No one is complaining about pilot salaries except USA320Pilot, who so desperately wants to hold on to "his" and throw everyone else over board to keep it.

Sure they do...my wife is a nurse and used to hear it every day,when she was still working.

 

[PITbull]

Well, Auto, I'm an RN and I can tell you IMO it is just ignorance on her part. :down: