Here comes the judge!

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/21/2003 6:15:42 PM chipmunn wrote:

PitBull:

You make a good point. If the shoe was on the other foot, all of the other unions would fight for their pension. Why is it wrong for the pilot group to do the same thing?

What I find offensive is that there is so much banter for what is wrong with other labor group contracts, but we cannot find fault with our own contracts.

Each employee group has taken a proportionate cut for pay, productivity, and benefits and I have no heart- burn with those cuts, for myself or anybody else for that matter. I supported pilot cuts in the first two round plus the third ALPA cut, but this round of cuts is to much.

What I do find fault in is the pilots being singled out for a fourth cut that effects retirement, where every other employee has taken only one cut to help their pension shortfall.

Again, I do not want to see anybody lose their pension, but what is happening to ALPA is wrong.

Chip

----------------
[/blockquote]

Mangement is causing the "ruckess" with RSA and ATSB and the creditors, by saying that the pension issue MUST be resolved before emergence, is making a situation more severe and acute than, I believe, is necessary. U should wait to see what events take place this year with respect to our economy, and then and only then, negotiate with the pilots for a "freeze" NOT termination.

I believe this management very well KNOWS the kind of moneies/profit potential this company has, they just don't want the liability of the pilots pension anymore. They are being opportunistic and seizing this moment to steal the pensions and line their own pockets with that savings in the future.

I humbly agree with your sentiments. I don't blame you guys for fighting like hell. Pilots have finally reached their "threshold" with this mangement....and I would take them to that wall.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/21/2003 7:39:33 PM PITbull wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/21/2003 6:15:42 PM chipmunn wrote:

PitBull:

You make a good point. If the shoe was on the other foot, all of the other unions would fight for their pension. Why is it wrong for the pilot group to do the same thing?

What I find offensive is that there is so much banter for what is wrong with other labor group contracts, but we cannot find fault with our own contracts.

Each employee group has taken a proportionate cut for pay, productivity, and benefits and I have no heart- burn with those cuts, for myself or anybody else for that matter. I supported pilot cuts in the first two round plus the third ALPA cut, but this round of cuts is to much.

What I do find fault in is the pilots being singled out for a fourth cut that effects retirement, where every other employee has taken only one cut to help their pension shortfall.

Again, I do not want to see anybody lose their pension, but what is happening to ALPA is wrong.

Chip

----------------
[/blockquote]

Mangement is causing the "ruckess" with RSA and ATSB and the creditors, by saying that the pension issue MUST be resolved before emergence, is making a situation more severe and acute than, I believe, is necessary. U should wait to see what events take place this year with respect to our economy, and then and only then, negotiate with the pilots for a "freeze" NOT termination.

I believe this management very well KNOWS the kind of moneies/profit potential this company has, they just don't want the liability of the pilots pension anymore. They are being opportunistic and seizing this moment to steal the pensions and line their own pockets with that savings in the future.

I humbly agree with your sentiments. I don't blame you guys for fighting like hell. Pilots have finally reached their "threshold" with this mangement....and I would take them to that wall.



----------------
[/blockquote]
Exactly!

 

[wts54]

The RSA and U management are working hand and glove.
U management tries to blame all of these decisions on
Bronner,but they are two peas in a pod so to speak.

 

[Dark Wrench]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/20/2003 8:32:43 PM LavMan wrote:



Under BK code like in 82 when Lorenzo abrogated all the contracts and broke all the unions, so then Congress enacted sections 1113 and 1114 to prevent a blanket abrogation. ----------------
[/blockquote]
1983
Update your lacky notebook.

 

[D3o2r8kdrvr]

I support the mainline pilot group and their chosen course of action should the judge rule in support of the company. You can not get blood from a stone, you can not continue to take without being held accountable. Siegal is not the leader we have been led to believe. He is nothing more than a corporate spin doctor who in his efforts to make U a better place to work has pitted labor groups against each other to the point that should this company survive, there will never be sound relations between its employee groups. Yesterday we all hated management. Today, sadly, we hate management and each other, we are weakened, wounded, and wandering blind through this environment we call a job.

 

[LavMan]

Learn to read, Lorenzo took CO into bk in 1982!

 

[Dark Wrench]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/24/2003 10:01:07 AM LavMan wrote:

Learn to read, Lorenzo took CO into bk in 1982!
----------------
[/blockquote]
http://www.continental.com/company/history...F00C33A5A74ECCD

September 23,1983
Continental filed to reorganize under Chapter 11 of the Federal Bankruptcy Code. Rebuilding the company began immediately and by the end of 1984, Continental recorded a 50 USD million profit.

i did

 

[savyinvestor]

Lets' hope tomorrow will pave the way for U's emergence from chapter 11! Savy

 

[AOG-N-IT]

While in agreement with our ALPA friends that Dave has tossed them a cureball from hell. I do not agree with some of the things that I have seen and heard of late.

I was in the Food Court area of the PIT main terminal last week awaiting the TSA office to return from lunch....Yep new ID time. While eating my lunch....and not in any company attire , I overheard without trying mind you , Two Very Senior pilots loudly plotting tactics to throw a wrench into the system for retribution.

The comments ranged from BS Maintenance "Write Ups" on the aircraft....all the way to methods to "Jimmy" the ACARS system. One is a valid tactic....because I have witnessed it before with express operations. The other being a valid option or not? , was purely wrong to have been discussed within earshot of the flying public.

Please be careful with how you show your frustrations.....the wrong people (The Passengers) are listening too.

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/24/2003 8:15:19 AM D3o2r8kdrvr wrote:

I support the mainline pilot group and their chosen course of action should the judge rule in support of the company. You can not get blood from a stone, you can not continue to take without being held accountable. Siegal is not the leader we have been led to believe. He is nothing more than a corporate spin doctor who in his efforts to make U a better place to work has pitted labor groups against each other to the point that should this company survive, there will never be sound relations between its employee groups. Yesterday we all hated management. Today, sadly, we hate management and each other, we are weakened, wounded, and wandering blind through this environment we call a job.
----------------
[/blockquote]

D30,

Reality is what we allow. Let's all prove management wrong. This was their goal, including PITTING ONE GROUP AGAINST THE OTHER. WITH ALL MY STRENGTH, I will not SUBMIT to this, now or ever.

WE ARE UNION... WE STICK TOGETHER. PERIOD.
[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/6.gif']

 

[mlt]

Aog-n-It
I agree with you 100%. This situation is taking on tornado winds and the aftermath may very well be more devastating than the situation at hand. All of us have the right to know U's financial information and to responsibly analyze and react. To date most employees have continued to do their jobs in a professional manner and not allow our paying customers to be the victims of a disgruntled workforce. Should the passengers begin to suffer from our anger and intentionally spend their money elsewhere, we are done.

 

[PITbull]

lavMan,

I can't speak to that, or how one labor leader, or group responds or acts. That was a different time, no excuse.

How do we create a TRANSFORMATION? WE have experienced, seen and have shared TOGETHER, at the same time, same moments that horrible pitting inside ourselves, not sleeping, folks losing their jobs in a moment's notice, watching them leave, their last days. Sitting in negotiations watching pages and pages ripped out of all our contracts. I WILL NEVER FORGET THIS, NOT EVER. And in that suffering I have
submitted my heart to being "my brothers keeper". We are Labor. The essense and back bone of this nation. WE MAKE IT HAPPEN, ALL OF US, TOGETHER!

Will we succeed....YOU BET!

Together, we will live to fight that day!

 

[LavMan]

Pit, then why did ALPA stab the IAM in the back in 92?

 

[LavMan]

Pit it occured this past August also. During the labor coalition meetings ALPA and the AFA were informed that our AGC Tommy R had found a better health plan and at cheaper rates then what they company had sought.

Before the IAM could present this to the company, ALPA signed off on the current plan, therefore forcing it upon all the others.

 

[PITbull]

LavMan,

I can promise you, this was not presented to us at the Labor coalition meetings. If IAM had a better plan, I was not aware, and I was at the tables. I was the biggest advocate against submitting to a PPO unless we could actually see the plan NOT just the contributions.

AS you note, AFA had cheaper contributions, and CWA and IAM adopted our contributions. We had hired a specialist to take the co. paradign and accomodate it to what we could possibly afford in light of a wage cut going through the forwarding years. I argued at the Coalition meetings with ALPA, who we knew could afford a medical plan that the co proposed; but NOT the rest of us. Again, in ALPA's attempt to do what ever this management wanted to save their pensions, they caved.

I did not know IAM had a proposal. Even if ALPA took theirs, all the labor groups did not have to concede. CWA took the plan, I was told, cause they couldn't buy their way out in wages. Most of us were in that predicament. You know, we had to get to this "bogy" number. Co. at the time said they didn't care how we got there we just had to get there, otherwise we would go into bankruptcy and they would enact the 1113 bankruptcy code and abrogate. We were dying. All of us owned co. stock as well and we didn't want to see bankruptcy, which was again another factor with our members. In the end, the co. came back around in the winter, and then TOOK EVERYTHING THEY EVER DREAMED OF ANYWAY.

We have now opened this PPO door to the co. for life. It will never close. The only thing that will save us financially with these medical contributions going forward is if somehow, someway, the gov. steps in and regulates the cost or nationalizes medicine. And with a Republican congress, it ain't happening.