Here comes the BK threat from the company

[700UW]

Interesting points - thanks.

So on the subject of what AA should do now, going forward, and speaking only of M&E - should AA now take the path that Delta, United, AirTran, Frontier, etc. have (apparently) taken - outsource overhauls to third parties and/or foreign countries, and use part of the savings to raise the wages of the line folks? Will TULE/AFW ever be competitive on cost with where Delta, United, AirTran, Frontier, etc. now do overhauls (TIMCO, HAECO, Aeroman, etc.)? If not, maybe the solution is to "cut, cut, cut" off the piece of M&E (MBV) that will never be cost-competitive, and instead focus on motivating/improving/investing in line M&E? Would that ever pass ratification?

You will be amazed at what will pass. At US during the second bankruptcy our CBA was abrogated and the membership voted on the POS final offer that had their severance pay intact, even though it would cause the layoff of 46% of the maintenance work force, it was ratified.

I was on the NC and I was a big time NO voter and told everyone how I was voting and it still passed.

 

[Buck]

Bob, in seriousness if the interests of your members in overhaul are not aligned with line stations wouldn't the membership be better served with separate TAs and collective bargaining agents? Perhaps I'm missing something (or a big part of the picture) but it seems the line mechanics in BOS, NYC, etc are getting the short end of the deal here while Tulsa has pull from its numbers. In the on YouTube last summer you discussed concerns with the divisiveness of the company proposals and separating line and overhaul. If their interests are so far apart why wouldn't the membership be better served with a TA and/or union altogether?

Josh

You might ask Line Maintenance if they would be satisfied separating from OH and who would they want to represent them.

 

[Hopeful]

You might ask Line Maintenance if they would be satisfied separating from OH and who would they want to represent them.

Separate agreements with be sufficient!

 

[damajagua]

Ourpay and Horton are meeting with the APA BOD tomorrow.

What a hoot that would be to listen to. Let me guess....if it weren't for us costly labor bricks, we would be making TONS of money!

ANY NEWS OUT OF THE MEETING?

 

[Super FLUF]

ANY NEWS OUT OF THE MEETING?

It was held in closed session, so it's hard to find people "in the know". I am getting bits and pieces, so I'll post when I get more reliable info.

 

[Super FLUF]

The APA just put out a nebulous email blast on the issue, however, no details of the exchange between the PUPsters and our BOD were detailed. That is what I am going to try to get more info on. From what I am hearing so far, my thread title stands as is.

Here is part of the APA blast. The rest of the blast was omitted as it was a copy of a prepared statement read by one of our BOD members and was not really germane to the discussion.

APA Leadership Update:
Meeting with American Airlines Senior Management
August 24, 2011
This morning, the APA National Officers and Board of Directors met for nearly two hours with AMR Chairman and CEO Gerard Arpey, AMR President Tom Horton, American Airlines Senior Vice President of Human Resources Jeff Brundage and American Airlines Vice President-Flight Captain John Hale.
Today marked the first meeting in several years between American Airlines senior management and the entire APA elected leadership. The management representatives expressed their desire to move negotiations forward expeditiously and also described their vision of the airline’s future. The parties discussed at length the considerable challenges facing the airline, along with the recently announced major aircraft purchase. The APA leadership characterized today’s discussions—which took place in executive session because of the confidential nature of some of the items covered—as candid.

 

[Birdman]

The management representatives expressed their desire to move negotiations forward expeditiously and also described their vision of the airline’s future.

There's no doubt that the APA's cooperation has everything to do with AMR's survival as the other workgroups, a little lower on the food chain, have not been graced with a face to face meeting with the upper echelon. BTW, The Motley Fool (link below) can be added to the list of those on this website that have serious doubts that things can be worked out in time to save this company.


http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/08/18/these-3-companies-could-disappear-by-2020.aspx?source=itxsitmot0000001&lidx=5

 

[tech2101]

Separate agreements with be sufficient!

That is a myth and smoke and mirrors. You are a divided membership and AA knows it.

Look at the history of the IAMAW trying that separate agreement thing at NWA and UAL.

Just have your ass handed to you by the TWU and AA and be done with it.

How long will are you wiling to prolong the agony?

 

[odie01]

This morning, the APA National Officers and Board of Directors met for nearly two hours with AMR Chairman and CEO Gerard Arpey, AMR President Tom Horton, American Airlines Senior Vice President of Human Resources Jeff Brundage and American Airlines Vice President-Flight Captain John Hale.
Today marked the first meeting in several years between American Airlines senior management and the entire APA elected leadership. The management representatives expressed their desire to move negotiations forward expeditiously and also described their vision of the airline’s future. The parties discussed at length the considerable challenges facing the airline, along with the recently announced major aircraft purchase. The APA leadership characterized today’s discussions—which took place in executive session because of the confidential nature of some of the items covered—as candid.

It must be nice to have the company express their desire to move negotiations forward expeditiously. The twu negotiating team was called a "bunch of pricks" by their mediator. I say the pilots settle now that the clock is ticking, but unlike the twu, they will negotiate up to the last minute of the last hour before they reach and agreement.

 

[strikeforce]

There's no doubt that the APA's cooperation has everything to do with AMR's survival as the other workgroups, a little lower on the food chain, have not been graced with a face to face meeting with the upper echelon. BTW, The Motley Fool (link below) can be added to the list of those on this website that have serious doubts that things can be worked out in time to save this company.

Sure happy the APA is interested in attending the Liar's Club meetings! BTW, mind leaving some crumbs for us lowly food chain AMT's??? Thanks!

 

[eolesen]

The Motley Fool (link below) can be added to the list of those on this website that have serious doubts that things can be worked out in time to save this company.

Uh, TMF doesn't have doubts about AMR -- one of their community members has doubts. It's not much different from taking stock investment advice from WT or TWAFA007.

When I see something penned by one of the Gardners or the professional staff, I'll take heed...

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, in seriousness if the interests of your members in overhaul are not aligned with line stations wouldn't the membership be better served with separate TAs and collective bargaining agents? Perhaps I'm missing something (or a big part of the picture) but it seems the line mechanics in BOS, NYC, etc are getting the short end of the deal here while Tulsa has pull from its numbers. In the on YouTube last summer you discussed concerns with the divisiveness of the company proposals and separating line and overhaul. If their interests are so far apart why wouldn't the membership be better served with a TA and/or union altogether?

Josh

Where in the post did you come up with me saying our interests arent aligned?

Perhaps I'm missing something (or a big part of the picture) but it seems the line mechanics in BOS, NYC, etc are getting the short end of the deal here while Tulsa has pull from its numbers. In the on YouTube last summer you discussed concerns with the divisiveness of the company proposals and separating line and overhaul. If their interests are so far apart why wouldn't the membership be better served with a TA and/or union altogether?

Josh

Well you obviously did miss something, its called The Railway Labor Act.

 

[Birdman]

Uh, TMF doesn't have doubts about AMR -- one of their community members has doubts. It's not much different from taking stock investment advice from WT or TWAFA007.

When I see something penned by one of the Gardners or the professional staff, I'll take heed...

Didn't mean to mislead as I was just forwarding an article sent to me. David Gardner gives high praise to the CAPS community featured on TMF website, but no, they do not represent his company. Sean Williams, aka TMFUltraLong rated #10 out of 74,000+ in accuracy, is a CAPS community contributor and not on staff with the Motley Fool although many of his articles appear there. All things considered, I doubt you or I would invest in AMR.

 

[eolesen]

Didn't mean to mislead as I was just forwarding an article sent to me. David Gardner gives high praise to the CAPS community featured on TMF website, but no, they do not represent his company. Sean Williams, aka TMFUltraLong rated #10 out of 74,000+ in accuracy, is a CAPS community contributor and not on staff with the Motley Fool although many of his articles appear there. All things considered, I doubt you or I would invest in AMR.

No, I probably wouldn't, but not because AMR is destined for collapse... I'd rather find a foreclosure to use as a retirement home than invest in stocks right now.

 

[WorldTraveler]

There's no doubt that the APA's cooperation has everything to do with AMR's survival as the other workgroups, a little lower on the food chain, have not been graced with a face to face meeting with the upper echelon. BTW, The Motley Fool (link below) can be added to the list of those on this website that have serious doubts that things can be worked out in time to save this company.


http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/08/18/these-3-companies-could-disappear-by-2020.aspx?source=itxsitmot0000001&lidx=5

While some people pick and choose the messengers they listen to in hopes of filtering out the messages they don't want to hear, wise people listen to all that is said regardless of whether they like the message or not... if there is a kernel of truth in what is being said, then it just might be worthwhile considering that negative input and making whatever corrections are necessary.

You see, . "Some say negative things behind your back & good things to your face, those are your enemies. Some say negative things to your face & good things behind your back, those are your friends."

That said, unless I am so influential that people at the Motley Fool are copying my thoughts, then there are at least two of us on the planet that have put in writing our concerns about how much debt AA is taking on with this deal, even if it will reduce AA's operating costs.


"Then we have possibly the creme de la creme of bonehead maneuvers. Just last month, AMR placed the largest airplane order in history: a 460-plane order from both Boeing (NYSE: BA ) and Airbus. While AMR's management would have you believe that over the long term, it will have no problem paying for such a large order, call me beyond skeptical. These new orders are fully financed through 2016, but beyond that point, this $40 billion order gets cloudier. AMR shareholders already have more than $11 billion worth of debt on the balance sheet to worry about, so many weren't exactly thrilled to see this new order. It's looking doubtful that AMR will be able to move margins significantly enough in the right direction to make a dent in its massive debt load.

Foolish roundup
Often we're told to stick with the strongest names in a given sector. If that's the case, these three companies are resoundingly the weakest links in their respective sectors. All three are decisively losing money hand over fist with rapidly deteriorating balance sheets. While I don't have a doomsday date in mind, I highly doubt these three will be around by 2020."

While I am not even predicting AMR's death by 2020, no one should be without concern about adding $10B of new debt from this and currently outstanding AA refleeting orders.