Hard-line Pilots Seek To Boot Negotiators

[BoeingBoy]

Hard-line pilots seek to boot negotiators
Union representatives say bargaining team has given US Airways far too much

Thursday, April 08, 2004
By Dan Fitzpatrick, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Hard-liners in the US Airways pilots union are seeking to recall and replace their negotiating team, a move that probably will make it more difficult for airline Chief Executive Officer David Siegel to win concessions from the airline's highest-paid unionized workers.

Article

Jim

 

[GeezLouis]

A certain A320 pilot is going to be pissed!

 

[A320 Driver]

We are amateurs negotiating with professionals. We need professional negotiators and WE need to be the advisors. JG is a hired gun. I'm sure there are more guns for hire out there that we could hire ourselves.

A320 Driver

 

[delldude]

A certain A320 pilot is going to be pissed!

now does this mean that the pilots will be "left behind" as far as the "going forward plan" goes??
they may now sit in the "room of doom" with their dear friends the IAM.

 

[737nCH11]

usa320pilot,

Tick Tock Tick Tock.

P.S. It's Tick not Tic. Tic is like Tic Tac.

 

[usfliboi]

More politics here. Its crazy all of this at a time we cannot afford it. Pit has nothing to lose however they know its a done deal there. Just more crap out of desperation. The difference between being professional and rational is obvious here.

 

[76200]

The title of this article is misleading. All those representatives mentioned in the
article from Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and Boston are honorable men.

To now lable them hardliners is very misleading, although I realize that sells
papers.

It's no different than calling the current negotiating committee the Giveaway Gang
( GAG ).

We're way overdue for a change in how we negotiate with USAirways and how our
company deals with the many inefficiencies that currently exist.

There isn't a pilot on this property that doesn't want this company to thrive and survive and grow mainline.

Captain Fred Freshwater states it best, " We don't think they are getting the job done," said Pittsburgh pilot representative Fred Freshwater, one of five MEC members calling for a new negotiating team. "What we have given over the last couple of years is just astronomical" and in the future, the "quid pro quos have to be there. We want ... this place to succeed." But, "it has to be a concerted effort on the part of management and labor."

I salute these MEC members for taking a stand to make our company and union
better.

76200

 

[WOJetDreamer]

Sounds good you guys. If your negotiation committee is sailing you down the river, by all means get someone in there you trust. I am certainly starting to feel the same way here at PSA. Your union (U MEC) wants MY seniority here at PSA for bidding purposes and I WILL NOT STAND FOR IT! And I have a feeling that our negotiation committee will be recalled also if this is allowed to happen. They have already given themselves (senior pilots) a healthy raise while leaving the junior pilots with nothing. For one I am sick of it and I will not stand them letting my seniority go while they keep theirs intact. So tell youR NEW NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE TO FORGET ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!! Can't we all just get along. I know the U pilots have given up a GREAT GREAT DEAL AND I TRUELY SEE AND RECONIZE THAT. But that does not give them the right to come take what you have lost from me because you can't get from any place else.

Pay my dues you say!!! Well I am done paying!!!!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

More politics here. Its crazy all of this at a time we cannot afford it. Pit has nothing to lose however they know its a done deal there. Just more crap out of desperation. The difference between being professional and rational is obvious here.

USFLIBOI,
It's obvious to me, and apparently others, that you and a certain "captain" want MORE junior guys to fall on their swords just to save YOUR job. I think those days are about to end. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that a large portion of this and other "financial disasters" over the last few months were orchestrated between management AND creditors in order to "negotiate" more from labor. Why else would Dave and Dave NOT take the opportunities that have been presented to paint UAIR in a positive light for many of it's accomplishments? In fact, even when something posititve happens these guys expertly spin it into something of a disaster. EVERYONE here wants UAIR to succeed. It won't make much difference either way for the 15,000+ folks that have already lost jobs here (that's right! I'll bet Dave is right now working on ways to avoid having to recall furloughees, since new hires are MUCH cheaper, even though those folks have worked as hard as anyone to make UAIR successful). I, personally, think it's about time that someone got the cojones to stand up to these guys. One thing's for sure, the threats will get really ugly before something actually happens. I'm ready. If I were you, I'd go get some prozac, then sit back and watch the show!

 

[Bud8EE]

You consider J4J as taking the jobs but the 1849 mainline furloughees consider it as bringing their career they allowed to be outsourced for the good of the US Airways Group to continue as an entity. They are bringing their career to PSA and leaving it in perpertuity when they go. 50% of the jobs and blocks for bidding is a fair shake for the relaxing of their scope that allowed what was previously mainline F28(64-68seats) and Bac 111(74 seats) to be permantly eliminated. 140 aircraft were eliminated and US Airways made no attempt to hide the fact that the flying wasn't to be eliminated but "replaced with RJ's".

There is a rumor that the CRJ 701's may be moved to the Mid Atlantic division which would provide 100% of the job for furlough as well as othe job classifications. If I were at PSA I would be concerned about what might happen if the PSA MEC does not provide a soultion acceptable to for staffing and sniority and US Airwyays takes the situation out of PSA's hands. My guess since the 50 seat RJ is proving operationallly limited on full flights that US Airways no longer wants to spend capital on them and would like to transition all future deliveries to 70 seaters. IF PSA is left with only 25 50 seaters at 50/50 staffing the math isn't pretty and what is left will likely be sold to MESA as maintaining a 25 RJ airline probably wouldn't be feasible.

 

[aerosmith]

Hard-line pilots seek to boot negotiators
Union representatives say bargaining team has given US Airways far too much

Thursday, April 08, 2004
By Dan Fitzpatrick, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Hard-liners in the US Airways pilots union are seeking to recall and replace their negotiating team, a move that probably will make it more difficult for airline Chief Executive Officer David Siegel to win concessions from the airline's highest-paid unionized workers.

Article

Jim

I wouldn't call them hard liners ,I would call them common sensers.

 

[passed_over]

once again that old steelhead mentality comes out. It continues to baffle the mind that people such as BudEE think that the pilots who remained at the WO should take it in the butt for the sake of the furloughed mainline pilots. For those of us who remained at the wo's and have made it a career, we are appalled at the J4J program to begin with and now that the mainline pilot group feels the need to take even more jobs from those of us who remained. What makes you even consider that furloughed mainline pilots are a "higher class" of pilot and that they deserve even more than they are getting in the j4j program? it appears to be more arrogence by the mainline ALPA pilot group.

 

[mweiss]

It continues to baffle the mind that people such as BudEE think that the pilots who remained at the WO should take it in the butt for the sake of the furloughed mainline pilots.

I think it's called "unity," and is supposed to be the central tenet of unions. But maybe PITbull could more accurately elaborate.

 

[WSurf]

well said, pass

 

[Bud8EE]

once again that old steelhead mentality comes out. It continues to baffle the mind that people such as BudEE think that the pilots who remained at the WO should take it in the butt for the sake of the furloughed mainline pilots. For those of us who remained at the wo's and have made it a career, we are appalled at the J4J program to begin with and now that the mainline pilot group feels the need to take even more jobs from those of us who remained. What makes you even consider that furloughed mainline pilots are a "higher class" of pilot and that they deserve even more than they are getting in the j4j program? it appears to be more arrogence by the mainline ALPA pilot group.

A union is typically in place for job protection. I am of a mindset that every plane operated under a code fro C172 to an A380 should always be operated under a single seniority list and contract. The division only exists for whipsawing and havining lower pay, and lifestle structure in place at some companies by classifying them as "regionals". This is a serious failing allowed by ALPA national along the years that haunts the industry today and will continue to do so. It also creates serious conflicts of interest of which some are being legally persued as by the RJDC. Unfornatuely under the current structure a MEC is tasked to negotiate for the intersts of their own on a local basis with no national Strategy. This is an issue that should be taken up with Duane Worth.

As for the Mainline MEC, they have the responsibilty to protect the interst of the pilots in their locals. I for one would have supported no scope relief even prior to the first restructuring agreement unless it provided for the restoration of mainline jobs even under the theat of liquidation. Pension, work rules/jobs and pay in that order are componnents in a CBA that need to be protected. I would have supported far depper pay cuts to try and salvage the pension and jobs. I would rather pack everyone into the lifeboat and have it tight than climb into the life boat and cast people over to maintain the same personal space. Since an alternative approach was taken to aid the company which included huge scope relief the J4J program was developed to deal with representing thepilots affected by it. Unfortunately that meant negotiating provisions that creats a natural conflict of interset with the same union "ALPA" represents all sides of the equation. The mainline MEC is only exercising what the consider the duty of fair representation(many will argue that) to their group. Whateve the PSA MEC does should be in the best intersts of those they represent. PSA' MEC will simply have to review what is offered, what the alternatives are and make the best decision possible based on meeting the needs of the pilots they represent. I don't think any mainline pilot is going to squawk and all will have to deal with what arrises out of the solution.

Unfortunately most pilots have only themselves to blame as most are apothetic to the Union in general. Most don't take the time to stay completely informed. Most commute to work and use it an exuse for low attendance at union meetings. Their leaders often opperate in a vaccum with out the accountability because the collective will of the group isn't exerting itself. Their has been no will on a local basis Mainline/Regiona alike to elect national officers that will actually deal with decade old problems as outsourcing/whipsawing/seniority. Many sit around quietly hioping their competitors go out of business and fall on hard times as the saving grace to their career choices. There is no empathy that these people are their union brothers/sisters with families, mortgages, and other obligations. There is no empathy within the local groups themselves and the sense of self scrifice is pathetic. Many don't get concerned until the their ox is about to be gored. PSA is no exception. It is my understanding that FO payrates are pathetic yet the senior group that negotiated the contract are making 90,000k. I'm sure US Airways went along willingly since historically high longevity has never been a problem ther so low scales were basically "bought" from a few that will affect the majority. MWiess doesn't strke me as someone that has any since of unity but he is right it is the issue.