Fuel hedging

[WorldTraveler]

well yah I can when it has been

When it is not, then no.

Pretty simple really.

Thx for the accounting lesson... we were completely lost before you saved us

 

[jcw]

Bless your heart - since you were lost as you keep saying hedging will have an immaterial impact - so if hedging is so immaterial in highly fluctuating oil markets - why would DL hedge

The drop in oil will hurt DL is 3 places - trainer (before you go
off claiming that is impossible - you only need to read any article on how much the drop in oil is hurting all parts of the oil industry including refiners, it will hurt the price of fuel paid and last hedging losses.

I'm sure DL will have a good quarter and you will rationalize anything that is negative in their report

 

[WorldTraveler]

for someone that spends so much time on the internet, you have a woefully poor ability to comprehend what has been written. You also are just plain ignorant of multiple subjects.

I never said that hedging losses aren't material. I DID say that hedging losses at carriers that have them will be offset by revenue gains elsewhere. and AA's lack of hedging losses will be offset by other issues including currency losses.

in case you missed it, most airlines have not provided a great deal of guidance for future earnings which means that for the near term, there really is no great movement in profitability expected.

second, DL is a refiner, not a producer. A refinery uses crude oil at market prices.
You wanna stand by your bet that Trainer will post losses bcause of the drop in crude oil prices?

and DL like AA and every other public company will report what their internal books say they have to report. If profit sharing takes a bigger share of their profits and reduces their net profits, they will report it. If fuel hedge losses eat away at profits, they will report it. The chances are very high that DL's 4th quarter 2014 earnings will include significant mark to market losses for fuel hedges.
Likewise, if AA has to report that currency in Latin America is hurting revenue and is resulting in impaired revenue, they will report it.

that is what real companies do and not create some scenario that is detached from reality.

 

[jcw]

what ever - my post did not make all the way from my phone
 
Here is the 3 places it will hurt:
 
Trainer
Hedging Gains/Losses
Fuel Cost
 
At least I don't cause threads to be locked or disappear

 

[WorldTraveler]

yeah, that was established months ago.

what you don't seem to be able to admit is that if AA was really going to be so much better off than other airlines because of not having hedging losses, then it would be known.

In fact, AA will suffer currency losses and revenue declines.

apparently you want to keep debating the issue until earnings reports come out in in 3 plus weeks? if so, I'll be right here with you.

 

[jcw]

so you clearly can't follow a basic subject - there have been several articles written based upon comments make by Parker and Kirby on hedging hence not much more to hammer away at like you do
 
So here we go again with the currency and revenue declines - are you saying now that DL will not suffer losses from the dollar rise?  Or are you just hammering on one countries currency issue?
 
Seriously if I remember correctly this is about hedging and now on post 80 you have switched again to currency and revenue declines - however you preach to everyone to keep it on topic and you can't stay on topic for one post

 

[WorldTraveler]

I get the articles about hedging.

You simply do not want to acknowledge that AA has its own bricks in its backpack.

If they didn't, they would be posting higher estimated profit margins than they are, now wouldn't they?

 

[700UW]

Typical wt M.O. deflect and change, never stick to the facts nor the topic at hand.
 
 
-5993 and rising!

 

[jcw]

To quote you - "you must be dense"
 
I've said many times there are issues AA has to address - see I can list them - labor agreements, system integrations, Asia route structure, product standardization, etc
 
One of the things you don't understand is - why would any one have to discuss the "bricks in AA's backpack" - you do realize you hammer non stop on AA - once again you hammer, and hammer, and hammer, and hammer away at AA at every chance you get (I repeated that since you sometimes work on copy and paste and I thought I would help you along)
 
However you can't bring yourself to say anything negative about DL
 
So let's see - AA has one less brick due to their current hedging strategy - what bricks can you bring yourself to list that DL has in their backpack?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Typical wt M.O. deflect and change, never stick to the facts nor the topic at hand.
 
 
-5993 and rising!

the only deflection is those who can't explain why AA isn't forecasting 20% margins without fuel hedge losses.

 

[jcw]

The hammering, hammering, hammering and hammering that is occurring
 
What you fail to understand is some companies don't go crazy with forecasts - you can point to company after company that does not update forecasts every time they speak
 
I know that you will grind, grind and grind away at this topic that is really not important as the quarterly results

 

[WorldTraveler]

all public companies do have to provide investor guidance and they also have to revise it if there is some material change.

AA and DL both have provided margin guidance since when crude oil started its decline and in that guidance, AA and DL both expected an operating margin in the 10-12% range. DL has since revised its guidance to be on the high end of its original guidance and higher than what AA forecast.

so, yes, publicly traded companies do provide investor guidance. and if they provide it, they have to revise if it conditions materially change.

 

[jcw]

Tough one for you - you ever heard of Wells or Berkshire they give limited guidance just because DL gives guidance more regularly does not make it perfect - except in your world

Once again - grind and grind and grind away on your new issue to grind at guidance

What will be your grind and hammering topic for tomorrow be?

In case you forgot this thread is about fuel hedging

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

In case you forgot this thread is about fuel hedging

 
He hasn't forgotten the topic, he just can't handle it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Tough one for you - you ever heard of Wells or Berkshire they give limited guidance just because DL gives guidance more regularly does not make it perfect - except in your world

Once again - grind and grind and grind away on your new issue to grind at guidance

What will be your grind and hammering topic for tomorrow be?

In case you forgot this thread is about fuel hedging

so you are equating AAL to companies that defrauded the public?

yes, the thread is about fuel hedging, a topic that is PART of the guidance which airlines provide to investors in the SEC>

PART of the guidance. Actually, fuel price is the guidance that is provided. PART of the total picture