Foreign Nationals-Miami
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I have always assumed that they are members of a union in their country of residence, just like the AA employee mechanics in London.
Force them to join the APFA? That would make the USAPA East v West relationship (US Airways pilots) look like a love-fest by comparison.
Plus we don't work with them. They work separate flights and scheduling tries to keep them together. It is very rare to work one of their flights. It would still be nice to curtail the amount of flying they can do. AA wants to rewrite history, then lets rewrite that part as well. I think there are around 900 foreign nationals. Not absolutely sure. Pretty sure if I am wrong, then the number is less.
strikeforce
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- Jan 18, 2011
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And, that's been one of the faults of the unions. Just like the TWU allows Rockwell Collins, Panasonic and all these other contractors to work side by side with our amt's. I remember when our amt's would open sidewall panels for Rockwell. Talk about weak unions. It's not all about the money people....Scope is 10X more important! But, then again WE have guys that walk into a room with their salad bowl belt buckles, cowboy hats, and shoes with holes in them, and go around calling themselves "negotiators".
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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First of all, if EA's unions had such large nads as Strikeforce has indicated, how do you explain the fact that EA's unions also allowed foreign nationals?
If any of the original FA's from the EA purchase are still around, you also might want to keep in mind that they have 23 years just with AA.
They're not contractors. They work for AA just like you do. Believing that only a US national is qualified to do your job just makes you look like a xenophobe...
If any of the original FA's from the EA purchase are still around, you also might want to keep in mind that they have 23 years just with AA.
They're not contractors. They work for AA just like you do. Believing that only a US national is qualified to do your job just makes you look like a xenophobe...
AANOTOK
Veteran
- Oct 10, 2009
- 4,627
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Appendix S of the FA contract is the settlement of the grievance filed in 1990 over the foreign national FA issue. At that time, there were 331 former Eastern flight attendants to be hired, and AA was required to hire them. Looks like the foreign nationals are limited to 1.5% of the total FA numbers, not counting the 331 hired in 1990.
Best $330 million that Crandall ever spent:
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/29/business/american-s-big-plans-for-new-latin-routes.html
Best $330 million that Crandall ever spent:
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/29/business/american-s-big-plans-for-new-latin-routes.html
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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thanks FWA for the foreign FA corps.... glad you found the number but a little scary that an insider didn't know that any more readily.
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Yes, they go WAY back to when these routes were introduced and BN's rights were tied to these FAs... now they are simply a cost advantage to AA but it is doubtful that any country would pull any AA rights if they got rid of these FAs... which they have no desire to do.
But the US government is not going to expand the number of foreign based FAs permitted to fly to/from the US.... when DL closed the Warsaw FA base after the FRA hub closed, they tried several times to use these FAs to fly to the US and were denied. I don't think there is any appetite - nor should there be - to expand the number of foreign based FAs flying to the US.
Not sure about UA, but I believe most of their foreign bases are staffed by FAs who belong to the union and are paid at US wages... someone correct me if I am wrong.
As part of the PMNW/DL FA integration, DL will no longer have foreign based FAs work transpac flights, meaning that all flights to/from the US will be staffed by US based FAs.
So far as I know, US has no foreign based FAs.
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Thus it is quite necessary to know how competitive or not AA is in the percentage/actual number of its Latin based flights are operated by foreign FAs.
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I can assure you that if AA employees don't know, the company will not volunteer it and will take full advantage of the freedom they have.
331 foreign based FAs won't make or break APFA but it is 331 positions that I am certain AA will do everything possible to retain if for no other reason because the US will probably not replace the visa positions if they are allowed to expire.
yes, the Latin America purchase has more than paid for itself - and has also kept AA afloat alot longer than it otherwise could.
25% of all the revenue between the US and Latin America carried by US airlines still flies on AA to/from/through MIA.... making AA's MIA hub the most concentrated gateway by a carrier to any region of the world..... and that concentration of power goes along ways to keeping fares where they need to be to profitable.
It is also why potential ATI/JV with LAN and TAM has significant competitive implications....
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Yes, they go WAY back to when these routes were introduced and BN's rights were tied to these FAs... now they are simply a cost advantage to AA but it is doubtful that any country would pull any AA rights if they got rid of these FAs... which they have no desire to do.
But the US government is not going to expand the number of foreign based FAs permitted to fly to/from the US.... when DL closed the Warsaw FA base after the FRA hub closed, they tried several times to use these FAs to fly to the US and were denied. I don't think there is any appetite - nor should there be - to expand the number of foreign based FAs flying to the US.
Not sure about UA, but I believe most of their foreign bases are staffed by FAs who belong to the union and are paid at US wages... someone correct me if I am wrong.
As part of the PMNW/DL FA integration, DL will no longer have foreign based FAs work transpac flights, meaning that all flights to/from the US will be staffed by US based FAs.
So far as I know, US has no foreign based FAs.
.
Thus it is quite necessary to know how competitive or not AA is in the percentage/actual number of its Latin based flights are operated by foreign FAs.
.
I can assure you that if AA employees don't know, the company will not volunteer it and will take full advantage of the freedom they have.
331 foreign based FAs won't make or break APFA but it is 331 positions that I am certain AA will do everything possible to retain if for no other reason because the US will probably not replace the visa positions if they are allowed to expire.
yes, the Latin America purchase has more than paid for itself - and has also kept AA afloat alot longer than it otherwise could.
25% of all the revenue between the US and Latin America carried by US airlines still flies on AA to/from/through MIA.... making AA's MIA hub the most concentrated gateway by a carrier to any region of the world..... and that concentration of power goes along ways to keeping fares where they need to be to profitable.
It is also why potential ATI/JV with LAN and TAM has significant competitive implications....
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #24
Why are you here? You don't know what I do and its not for you to judge. Mind your own business.
Josh
While certain landing rights might had been tied to their employment these might not longer
be the case. The United States has open skies with most of these countries in Latin America
APFA should look into this matter and fight to protect US jobs. I like the system at United
why we don't have something like them when it comes to foreign nationals is beyond me.
No open skies with Argentina or Peru (yet). Even if the destinations were open skies - reducing the number of foreign nationals and replacing them with APFA members might invite a lawsuit and big judgement - like TWA faced when it canceled TLV and was sued by the TLV-based employees. APFA has an agreement with AA limiting the number of foreign national FAs and APFA knows exactly how many of them there are and where they fly - IMO, worrying about the foreign national FAs doesn't advance the primary concerns of the APFA membership right now: preserving pay and quality of life.
xUT
Veteran
Yes that has some truth but IMHO, Josh, only posted as flame bait.
Nothing more, nothing less.
BTW, how is that H1B visa fiasco working out for Merikan workers in IT?
We still have laid off H1B workers here in Commiefornia driving cabs.
DOH!
B) xUT
strikeforce
Veteran
- Jan 18, 2011
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They work for AA, but are not required to join the union?? Isn't the APFA the sole bargaining unit for F/A's at AA??? These FN are f/a's, right? Then, they should have been required to join the union. Period! Just like the amt's in London should have been required to join the TWU!
I never said they were contractors. But, what prevents AA from firing 23K F/A's and hiring 23K foriegn nationals???
The APFA CBA. Where have you been? Do you not read all the posts? It was already posted what the % is. Just tto remind you, it is 1.5% of the total F/A's not counting the original 331. Plus they are only allowed to work to certain cities and countries.
