For all you DC-10 fans!

[eolesen]

Yep. At ORD, we actually referred to the domestic -30's as The Pineapples, for the same reason...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Wrong on both counts.

DL were the launch customers, and PA didn't start service with the L1011 until 1980, a full year after the aircraft entered service.

In contrast, the DC10-30, which Lockheed had to compete with, was delivered starting in 1972.

As far as who was flying internationally in 1971, keep it in the context of the ETOPS discussion that had started. ETOPS didn't matter to Latin America or the Caribbean, and TransPac/TransAtlantic were pretty much locked in with PA/TW/NW, all of whom were heavily invested in the 747 at that point.

please find the text you have used to come to the conclusion that my post was wrong.

I've copied it to make it easy for you.

indeed. Pan Am was an early, if not launch customer, for the L1011-500 to serve its long, thin int'l routes, a role the L15 did until the 767-300ER was introduced. The D10 had similar uses.

At the same time, the US domestic carriers needed an widebody that could fly from LGA. The third engine was a necessity for both roles of the early widebodies.

 

 

[700UW]

The DC-10 was first ordered by launch customers American Airlines with 25 orders, and United Airlines with 30 orders and 30 options in 1968] The first DC-10, a series 10, made its maiden flight on August 29, 1970. Following a test program with 929 flights covering 1,551 hours, the DC-10 received its type certificate from the FAA on July 29, 1971.[8] It entered commercial service with American Airlines on August 5, 1971 on a round trip flight between Los Angeles and Chicago. United Airlines began DC-10 service on August 16, 1971.
 
The L-1011 TriStar was produced in two fuselage lengths. The original L-1011-1 first flew in November 1970, and entered service with Eastern Air Lines in 1972. The shortened, long-range L-1011-500 first flew in 1978, and entered service with British Airways a year later. The original length TriStar was also produced as the high gross weight L-1011-100, uprated engine L-1011-200, and further upgraded L-1011-250. Post-production conversions for the L-1011-1 with increased takeoff weights included the L-1011-50 and L-1011-150.
 
The L-1011-500 (FAA certification L-1011-385-3) was the last L-1011 variant to enter production. The L-1011-500 was a longer-range variant first flight tested in 1978. Its fuselage length was shortened by 14 feet (4.3 m) and maximum take-off weight increased to allow higher fuel loads. It also uses the more powerful engines of the -200 series. The -500 variant was popular among international operators and formed a significant portion of the L-1011 fleet of Delta and British Airways. However, its late introduction resulted in many potential customers buying the DC-10-30 instead.
 
Delta received its first L1011-500 on 1/8/1991 and its second on 7/4/1992.
 
And it received its first L1011-1 on 3/10/1973.
 
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Delta%20Airlines-history-l10.htm

 

[MCI transplant]

The DC-10 was first ordered by launch customers American Airlines with 25 orders, and United Airlines with 30 orders and 30 options in 1968] The first DC-10, a series 10, made its maiden flight on August 29, 1970. Following a test program with 929 flights covering 1,551 hours, the DC-10 received its type certificate from the FAA on July 29, 1971.[8] It entered commercial service with American Airlines on August 5, 1971 on a round trip flight between Los Angeles and Chicago. United Airlines began DC-10 service on August 16, 1971.
 
The L-1011 TriStar was produced in two fuselage lengths. The original L-1011-1 first flew in November 1970, and entered service with Eastern Air Lines in 1972. The shortened, long-range L-1011-500 first flew in 1978, and entered service with British Airways a year later. The original length TriStar was also produced as the high gross weight L-1011-100, uprated engine L-1011-200, and further upgraded L-1011-250. Post-production conversions for the L-1011-1 with increased takeoff weights included the L-1011-50 and L-1011-150.
 
The L-1011-500 (FAA certification L-1011-385-3) was the last L-1011 variant to enter production. The L-1011-500 was a longer-range variant first flight tested in 1978. Its fuselage length was shortened by 14 feet (4.3 m) and maximum take-off weight increased to allow higher fuel loads. It also uses the more powerful engines of the -200 series. The -500 variant was popular among international operators and formed a significant portion of the L-1011 fleet of Delta and British Airways. However, its late introduction resulted in many potential customers buying the DC-10-30 instead.
 
Delta received its first L1011-500 on 1/8/1991 and its second on 7/4/1992.
 
And it received its first L1011-1 on 3/10/1973.
 
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Delta%20Airlines-history-l10.htm

The L1011-500 was an odd bird. Flow as did the 747SP, with short fuselage, reduce weight, to increase range. And if I remember, had a center fuselage gear under it also. I worked a few, under contract, (line Maint) for the German charter Airline LTU.

 

[eolesen]

please find the text you have used to come to the conclusion that my post was wrong.

They were neither an early customer, or a launch customer. Feel free to spin away, Skippy.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, I won't spin away. You are correct that Pan Am did not introduce the L15 until a year into its production.

700's post was helpful in clarifying the dates.

If Pan Am put the L15 into service in 1980 and the first flight was with British Airways one year earlier, I would call that an early customer but you are free to call a year's difference whatever you want.

I remember Pan Am advertising when it acquired the L1011-500s and them touting it as the Advanced TriStar with active ailerons and more. The earlier version of the L15 had indeed been in service.

 

[700UW]

Pan Am only had 12 L1011s in their history and they were all L1011-500s.
 
They received their first one 5/8/1980.
 
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Pan%20Am-history-l10.htm

 

[WorldTraveler]

thanks, 700.

Appears that the L15 entered service with Pan Am almost exactly one year after it entered service with BA.

 

[Kev3188]

Great. So now we're gonna get 2-3 pages worth of posts discussing what specific time frame accurately defines "early"
 
Can someone gimme a shout when we get back to talking about DC10's?
 
Missing locks, the #2 engine, pineapples; this one had a lot of potential...

 

[eolesen]

Yep. The -500 was pretty much doomed from the onset. Boeing had already launched the 767 program in Jan 1978, and it flew about a year after PA's first delivery. That helps explain why TW only had a handful of -500s compared to DL.

In retrospect, anyone who didn't already have a fleet of L1011's would have been better off holding out for the 767 or the A310, which was launched about six months after the 767 program.

 

[700UW]

I also have worked the DC8 for UA, now that plane sucked with the pods under the belly.

 

[MCI transplant]

Yep. The -500 was pretty much doomed from the onset. Boeing had already launched the 767 program in Jan 1978, and it flew about a year after PA's first delivery. That helps explain why TW only had a handful of -500s compared to DL.

In retrospect, anyone who didn't already have a fleet of L1011's would have been better off holding out for the 767 or the A310, which was launched about six months after the 767 program.

Correction "E", but TW never had any 500's!

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Here Kev.

I remember the Mai Tai shower we used to get when pushing them back from the gate at DTW and SFO. The F/A's would hand all who wanted in F/C a Mai Tai (or 2 if you were a non rev) and would then dump them and old mixed pitchers of it down the fwd galley drain at pushback time.

Of course the drain was close enough to where the (open) tug sat that you you would get doused with the contents if the wind was right during pushback.

After my first shower at the old Charlie Gates at DTW, I always wore my raingear during push.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Before too long we'll be discussing the final revenue passenger flight of the MD-11 too, you think? Bummer.
 
 

Here Kev.

I remember the Mai Tai shower we used to get when pushing them back from the gate at DTW and SFO. The F/A's would hand all who wanted in F/C a Mai Tai (or 2 if you were a non rev) and would then dump them and old mixed pitchers of it down the fwd galley drain at pushback time.

Of course the drain was close enough to where the (open) tug sat that you you would get doused with the contents if the wind was right during pushback.

After my first shower at the old Charlie Gates at DTW, I always wore my raingear during push.

 
Lol!

 

[Kev3188]

Here Kev.

I remember the Mai Tai shower we used to get when pushing them back from the gate at DTW and SFO. The F/A's would hand all who wanted in F/C a Mai Tai (or 2 if you were a non rev) and would then dump them and old mixed pitchers of it down the fwd galley drain at pushback time.

Of course the drain was close enough to where the (open) tug sat that you you would get doused with the contents if the wind was right during pushback.

After my first shower at the old Charlie Gates at DTW, I always wore my raingear during push.

 
Lol. 
 
Thanks, man!