"fooled Again By Ward"

[Veritas]

The "staple them crowd" is the majority of the dues paying members of APFA. Majority wins in this case and the elected officials have an obligation to protect their members.

The majority is not always right.

That is the reason that the minority often needs protection from the tyranny of the majority. History is a great teacher. Witness, for example, the treatment of the Jews in Nazi Germany, in the thirties and forties (Hitler was popularly elected in a free election, for those of you who do not know history), of the African Americans in the segregated American South through the sixties and seventies, and, of the gays, in today's America, by the religious fundamentalists.

John Stuart Mills wrote about such dangers in his famous essay, On Liberty, which was published in 1859.

Like other tyrannies, the tyranny of the majority was at first, and is still vulgarly, held in dread, chiefly as operating through the acts of the public authorities. But reflecting persons perceived that when society is itself the tyrant — society collectively over the separate individuals who compose it — its means of tyrannizing are not restricted to the acts which it may do by the hands of its political functionaries. Society can and does execute its own mandates; and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with which it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. Protection, therefore, against the tyranny of the magistrate is not enough; there needs protection also against the tyranny of the prevailing opinion and feeling, against the tendency of society to impose, by other means than civil penalties, its own ideas and practices as rules of conduct on those who dissent from them; to fetter the development and, if possible, prevent the formation of any individuality not in harmony with its ways, and compel all characters to fashion themselves upon the model of its own. There is a limit to the legitimate interference of collective opinion with individual independence; and to find that limit, and maintain it against encroachment, is as indispensable to a good condition of human affairs as protection against political despotism.

 

[L1011Ret]

Great post Veritas. And look at Pat Gibbs description of the screaming and yelling "staple them" members. The stuff tyranny is born from, stomping on others.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Great post Veritas. And look at Pat Gibbs description of the screaming and yelling "staple them" members. The stuff tyranny is born from, stomping on others.

Obviously you don't know Patt Gibbs, William...If there is any screaming and yelling to be done, it is HER doing it. When she was APFA president, she wrote the book on tyranny.

 

[L1011Ret]

For a multitude of reasons, I still believe APFA and the AA F/As would be better served having a TWAer in an elected position if members decided his/her credentials merited the position.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

For a multitude of reasons, I still believe APFA and the AA F/As would be better served having a TWAer in an elected position if members decided his/her credentials merited the position.

Why? The particular individuals involved, those TWAers running for office, are all former IFFA leaders/supporters, and, ostensibly, supporters of the failed CPFA, as well.

They failed at running IFFA, and they failed at convincing the TWA flight attendants that their future is best served by returning to independent unionism, under the CPFA banner. What makes you think that they would do any better at APFA?

To be honest, I respected IFFA a great deal in their struggle with Icahn, and I particularly hoped that CPFA would win the representational election, however, history is history, and facts are facts.

 

[L1011Ret]

I said, " For a multitude of reasons, I still believe APFA and the AA F/As would be better served having a TWAer in an elected position if members decided his/her credentials merited the position." Obviously you you disagree, for you have stereotyped all the TWAers into not worthy of running for an elected position. Since you do not know which of them supported what in the past, your stereotyping is the same type of thinking referred to by Veritas. I guess you hate them all.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

I said, " For a multitude of reasons, I still believe APFA and the AA F/As would be better served having a TWAer in an elected position if members decided his/her credentials merited the position." Obviously you you disagree, for you have stereotyped all the TWAers into not worthy of running for an elected position. Since you do not know which of them supported what in the past, your stereotyping is the same type of thinking referred to by Veritas. I guess you hate them all.

Actually, William, I do not "hate" anybody. I will leave the "hate" to you and your cohorts, since it is your group which apparently chooses to only deal in "all or nothing" extremes, and who continues to vilify and attack anybody who dares disagree with your way of thinking.

I wish you well.

 

[TWAnr]

I will leave the "hate" to you and your cohorts, since it is your group which apparently chooses to only deal in "all or nothing" extremes, and who continues to vilify and attack anybody who dares disagree with your way of thinking.

It reads like another case of the pot calling the kettle black.

By the way, your posting style is familiar to those who follow the 4M board. It was not hard to put two and two together.

Fly safely.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

It reads like another case of the pot calling the kettle black.

By the way, your posting style is familiar to those who follow the 4M board. It was not hard to put two and two together.

Fly safely.

TWAnr...

Actually, I do not post on the flight attendant 4m. If I did, in fact, I would tell you.

 

[woztwa]

Actually, William, I do not "hate" anybody. I will leave the "hate" to you and your cohorts, since it is your group which apparently chooses to only deal in "all or nothing" extremes, and who continues to vilify and attack anybody who dares disagree with your way of thinking.

I wish you well.

WHy do you think you have the privilege of using Mr. Chamberlain's first name
"Actually, William" (what is that?)other than to infer your own arrogance. He is not the "hateful" one YOU ARE.
Do you stand in front of the mirror when you post?---please provide documentation of everything you say----geez, fella ----or lady......

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Actually, William, I do not "hate" anybody. I will leave the "hate" to you and your cohorts, since it is your group which apparently chooses to only deal in "all or nothing" extremes, and who continues to vilify and attack anybody who dares disagree with your way of thinking.

I wish you well.

WHy do you think you have the privilege of using Mr. Chamberlain's first name
"Actually, William" (what is that?)other than to infer your own arrogance. He is not the "hateful" one YOU ARE.
Do you stand in front of the mirror when you post?---please provide documentation of everything you say----geez, fella ----or lady......

Actually, woztwa, Bill has more class than you will ever have, as evidenced by your post. Please post an original thought for a change.

 

[MiAAmi]

The majority is not always right.

That is the reason that the minority often needs protection from the tyranny of the majority. History is a great teacher. Witness, for example, the treatment of the Jews in Nazi Germany, in the thirties and forties (Hitler was popularly elected in a free election, for those of you who do not know history), of the African Americans in the segregated American South through the sixties and seventies, and, of the gays, in today's America, by the religious fundamentalists.

John Stuart Mills wrote about such dangers in his famous essay, On Liberty, which was published in 1859.

Look back to the Reno purchase. The Judge decided that the majority was right.

 

[Veritas]

Look back to the Reno purchase.  The Judge decided that the majority was right.

No, the judge only ruled that the AA union owed no duty to represent the interests of the Reno flight attendants before it became their bargaining agent. It was not a moral judgment on what was right and what was not. Fiduciary duty by the APFA was the one and only legal basis for that law suit, since the Reno flight attendants did not have a Collective Bargaining Agreement with the airline. They had just elected the Teamsters to represent them;however, the Reno union did not have an opportunity to negotiate a contract prior to the merger.

 

[MiAAmi]

In the end what is legal will be binding. Whats right or wrong really doesn't matter.

 

[woztwa]

Actually, William, I do not "hate" anybody. I will leave the "hate" to you and your cohorts, since it is your group which apparently chooses to only deal in "all or nothing" extremes, and who continues to vilify and attack anybody who dares disagree with your way of thinking.

I wish you well.

This does not sound like someone who thinks anyone but himself has class.
You have gone from the arrogant "William", now to "Bill". I am sure you have not exchanged Xmas cards....."Capt." Chamberlin deserves respect. You do not show it, Str8. And yes, "Capt. Chamberlin" has more class the you will ever have.
Now, please provide documentation of your declaration to this board concerning
imformation you have about IFFA/CPFA/TWA....written. please.