Flight Attendant

[buscador]

AdAstraPerAspera, on 30 December 2011 - 03:35 PM, said

Here's a fact you won't hear any WN employee talk about: Southwest *needed* AirTran. But AirTran didn't need Southwest.

Why do you think WN had never flown into ATL before? The busiest airport in the world? Atlanta is one of the biggest cities in the US, and has one of the largest local economies in the world. It is the capital of the so-called New South, and is growing larger every day. So many big global companies have their HQ there. Was Southwest just gonna let that giant gaping hole in its route map stay there forever? No, too many business people need to fly there, and business travel is where the money is. But they couldn't compete there by themselves! They could not set up shop on their own and actually start flying into ATL, the busiest airport in the world. They needed help. They needed AirTran.
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I know now why you think DOH of hire is FAIR, could it be delusion???,, I know you may not know what that means so let me help you clarify the definition and your gross exaggerations,,

Delusion--A delusion is a false belief held with absolute conviction despite superior evidence

You said, SWA needed AT more than AT needed SWA... according to Wall street, it was predicted that if oil went over $100 barrel for more than 6-12months,, AT airlines would be knocking on bankruptcies door in under 24 months... so you are correct AT didnt need SWA.. well at least for another 23 months if oil kept high,, great strong comany AT,,SWA wasnt even mentioned in that article,, so just saying,, your are way off


So let me share with you facts not delusions on your ,, so called the Capitol of the New SOUTH-- Atlanta and your beloved Major AT airlines

So you said ATL is one of the fastest growing cities in the country,, hmm,, top 10 fastest growing cities in 2011....Palm Coast Fla,St George Utah, Las Vegas Nv, RAleigh Nc,Cape coral Fla,Provo UT, Greeley Col, Austin TX, Myrtle Beach S.C, Bend Oregon,, your beloved city came in again outside the top 20,, sorry to rock your delusions,,

You said ATL is one of the biggest cities in America,, is that more arrogance or ignorance,, I cant decide,,,, lets see the top 10 cities in America..NY, L.A, Chicago, Houston, Philly, Phoenix, San Diego, San Antonio, DAllas, Detroit,,, yea your beloved little southern belle city came in after oklahoma, tucson, albuequerque at ,, hold on,, cause this number is so close to a large city,Maybe without Cactus or cowboys,, but YEP,, ATL came in at #33... who hooo,, you should be proud,,

Here is the kicker,, ATL couldnt rank rank in the top 30 biggest cities(must have a small city complex).... but they made up for it,, o yea,, they shined like a new Dime in this stat,, according to FBI crime stats,, which include Murder,Rape,Robbery,Assaults.. ATL came in ahead of CAmden NJ,Washington DC and Compton CA... at ,, hold on,, you should be proud of this..#######3 in the whole country,,what a great city,,the #3 most DAngerous city in the country to live in,, do you guys hope to get to #1 some day,, maybe make up bumper stickers,,

So your precious city is a PEACH,, lol,,, So you were right on one thing I give you that ,, you have the busiest airport,, but maybe you should look at the facts before you start spouting your delusional rants,, your little company made profits OFF OF BAGGAGE FEES,, but you upgraded from a yugo to a Mercedes in that Dept,,, good thing it wasnt based on your abilities to rationalize or see the BIG factual picture, or to be somewhere near reality...wow, what brochures were you reading??? go Atlanta

Maybe you can help design a new sign to welcome people to that wonderful city you have, with BILLIONS of people flocking to the Atlanta-Capitol of the New South,,,,, "Welcome to Atlanta, home of the Busiest airport, where we may only be the #33 largest city in the U.S. but if you love Crime,, we are your Dream City,, maybe next year we can grow up to #1 in Murder, rape, Robbery, assaults,, lets pull together ATL and make it happen.... #1 in crime 2012(another bumper sticker idea)

Again thank you for your insights, and completely false information,, now I know why you think the way you do,, it all really makes sense,, a little tip for you though,, understand your limitations mentally and statistically before you go off on another psycho babble rant,,,

 

[Kev3188]

Was any of that worth the bandwidth it took?

 

[buscador]

Was any of that worth the bandwidth it took?

Sure it was,, I wasnt paying for it,, its free!!!! Lol,,, and I just love to see people rant false hoods and not have any idea if an ounce of their lack knowledge or so called facts are even close to the truth,,, reality is a word ad,,s,,w,, is not familiar with,, maybe he should change his name to Hope-Ican-Ad-reality-to-my-life,,,,I know its crzy,, but its just a thought

have a good nite

 

[WorldTraveler]

What it shows is that Buscador really holds deep grudges and she/he doesn't intend to let them go anytime soon. Given that there are more and more FL and WN employees who are posting in various places that they can accept what is going on and are being cordially greeted by members of the other airline, it makes Buscador's position less and less the norm.
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As for ATL, somehow despite its crime and being a tiny little city, it IS the world's largest airport and one of the top air travel markets in the US. But the FL merger wasn't just about ATL since it also included more access to more of the top business markets in the US than any other potential merger partner for WN could have provided. FL also has the necessary licenses and infrastructure to operate int'l flights, an advantage WN will be using as it expands its service from key WN cities to Mexico using FL aircraft and staff. How WN manages to integrate ATL and the remainder of FL's network into WN's system long term will speak volumes of the priority it places on increasing its presence on the east coast. FWIW, the combined FL/WN capacity for this summer in ATL is down about 15% compared to this past summer - an indication that WN didn't need a presence as large as FL once had in order to accomplish what it wants - or at least there is alot of sorting out of FL's network to do before WN can expand again... and WN's capacity for summer 2012 overall is less than it was a year earlier.
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FL and WN both found strategic value in the merger and they did it in the best interests of the respective companies. How well the employees decide to get along and work with each other will determined whether the company can obtain all the possible benefit from the merger - and that has financial implications for each and every one of the FL and WN employees.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Maybe you can help design a new sign to welcome people to that wonderful city you have, with BILLIONS of people flocking to the Atlanta-Capitol of the New South,,,,, "Welcome to Atlanta, home of the Busiest airport, where we may only be the #33 largest city in the U.S. but if you love Crime,, we are your Dream City,, maybe next year we can grow up to #1 in Murder, rape, Robbery, assaults,, lets pull together ATL and make it happen.... #1 in crime 2012(another bumper sticker idea)

Table of United States Metropolitan Areas (by size)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

Atlanta, #9. Larger than Boston, San Francisco, Phoenix and Seattle
(and a growth rate of +24.03%!)

CNNMoney's rankings of cities with the most Fortune 500 companies

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/cities/

Atlanta, #4. Ahead of Chicago.

Looks like it is *you* with the tenuous grip on reality.

But that's ok. With Southwest's huge presence at LAS, I'm sure a large company might someday move its HQ there. I mean, no Fortune 500 company ever has in all the years Southwest Airlines has existed, but hey, there's a first time for everything. It's all good, though: obviously there was enough tourist traffic to keep WN plugging along.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

 

[gizmo_sc]

"But that's ok. With Southwest's huge presence at LAS, I'm sure a large company might someday move its HQ there. I mean, no Fortune 500 company ever has in all the years Southwest Airlines has existed, but hey, there's a first time for everything. It's all good, though: obviously there was enough tourist traffic to keep WN plugging along"

WOW, with SWA having roots in Dalls, TX for the past 40 years. I would think that SWA would not pick up and move HQ to LAS just becasue that is the large city with lots of flights.

That would be like saying US AIRWAYS would move HQ to PHL/CLT since those are large hubs. SWA is a Texas company LONG and HARD.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

"But that's ok. With Southwest's huge presence at LAS, I'm sure a large company might someday move its HQ there. I mean, no Fortune 500 company ever has in all the years Southwest Airlines has existed, but hey, there's a first time for everything. It's all good, though: obviously there was enough tourist traffic to keep WN plugging along"

WOW, with SWA having roots in Dalls, TX for the past 40 years. I would think that SWA would not pick up and move HQ to LAS just becasue that is the large city with lots of flights.

That would be like saying US AIRWAYS would move HQ to PHL/CLT since those are large hubs. SWA is a Texas company LONG and HARD.

I was talking about Fortune 500 companies headquarters moving to Las Vegas, not Southwest Airlines moving to LAS.

 

[num1bearsfan]

Southwest needed AirTran about as much as they needed Frontier.. They were just an acquisition targeted for the sole purpose of quick cheap growth.. The truth is AirTran while self sustaining, was not a healthy company with long term viability.. Completely vulnerable to oil market volatility as Buscador mentioned.. Fornaro jumped at the chance of taking this acquisition, make no mistake about it... Let's not lie to ourselves

 

[buscador]

I stand corrected, because I thought your pshyco babble said ATLANTA,,, and here I should of known that what you meant was ATlanta-Sandy springs-marietta-gainseville-Ga-Msp. entire metropolitan area/most of the state ..honest mistake and if you keep adding regions you will end up with some texans in there ,, watch out they wont like that... but at best according to wikipedia you would still barely make the top ten

STill not the same as your post made it sound like,, but again SWA had to have AT or it was done, According to adaspsehrehpuratths;ourefdfs,,... nice try,,

 

[WorldTraveler]

Southwest needed AirTran about as much as they needed Frontier.. They were just an acquisition targeted for the sole purpose of quick cheap growth.. The truth is AirTran while self sustaining, was not a healthy company with long term viability.. Completely vulnerable to oil market volatility as Buscador mentioned.. Fornaro jumped at the chance of taking this acquisition, make no mistake about it... Let's not lie to ourselves

since WN's financial metrics have taken a hit even when separated out from FL, you cannot accurately say that FL was any more vulnerable than any other carrier.
Rising fuel prices have hampered a whole lot in the airline industry, including WN's previous strategy of being able to stimulate demand with low fares. Their execs have said as much... and if there was any doubt, the fact that they are pulling capacity throughout WN's system (apart from FL) shows that they don't need the capacity they once had. Given that the WN business plan has been built around continuous internal growth, then it can very much be said that WN's business plan was not viable long term.
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FL's business plan was not viable long-term either. They kept running into other low fare carriers whenever they tried to grow; they had been forced by DL to retreat in ATL by about 20% compared to FL's peak size when DL was in BK; and they were carrying lots of low yielding connecting traffic.
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Let's be clear that both FL and WN's business plans needed substantial revision -which is why they now are working through some major strategic issues now as one airline (for network and planning purposes).
To argue that one airline was any better off long term is just not accurate.

 

[num1bearsfan]

since WN's financial metrics have taken a hit even when separated out from FL, you cannot accurately say that FL was any more vulnerable than any other carrier.

I'll maintain that FL was a significant degree more vulnerable than WN . Well done on demonstrating your airline knowledge prowess, but you're blurring the point slightly.. Yes, the industry as a whole is having to adapt to changing conditions but to say that not one airline has a healthier position over another long term is a bit silly.. Southwest is a much bigger, robust, and healthier airline by a number of different metrics.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'll maintain that FL was a significant degree more vulnerable than WN . Well done on demonstrating your airline knowledge prowess, but you're blurring the point slightly.. Yes, the industry as a whole is having to adapt to changing conditions but to say that not one airline has a healthier position over another long term is a bit silly.. Southwest is a much bigger, robust, and healthier airline by a number of different metrics.

before the FL merger, yes. But they bit off a large strategic initiative with the merger at the same time that their financial performance individually was changing for the worse.
WN took action to change its course with the FL merger - but in so doing it removes alot of flexibility to do other things including continuing with the growth for which WN is famous.
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We can argue all day long about how much better someone WOULD have been if they had continued on their previous course... but such an approach cannot be proven.
What each of us including companies are held accountable for is what we do with the choices we make and the circumstances that are put in front of us.
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WN will very likely adapt and learn how to compete in a very different environment.... and they do have "reserves" to help "finance" the transition. But they are not exempt from the changes that other carriers have experienced and they will have to demonstrate success before returning to the same league they once were in - or the league that other carriers are in right now.

 

[NYCDelta]

Southwest needed AirTran about as much as they needed Frontier.. They were just an acquisition targeted for the sole purpose of quick cheap growth.. The truth is AirTran while self sustaining, was not a healthy company with long term viability.. Completely vulnerable to oil market volatility as Buscador mentioned.. Fornaro jumped at the chance of taking this acquisition, make no mistake about it... Let's not lie to ourselves

WN would have done just fine without FL. But, I think FL would have survived. MANY business travelers in the ATL liked FL because they could afford to fly in their business class, and FL could take them to alot of places that WN couldn't, i.e. Newport News, Flint, Branson, etc. I think both airlines will benefit from this merger or they wouldn't have consummated it in the first place.

 

[num1bearsfan]

before the FL merger, yes. But they bit off a large strategic initiative with the merger at the same time that their financial performance individually was changing for the worse.
WN took action to change its course with the FL merger - but in so doing it removes alot of flexibility to do other things including continuing with the growth for which WN is famous.
.
We can argue all day long about how much better someone WOULD have been if they had continued on their previous course... but such an approach cannot be proven.
What each of us including companies are held accountable for is what we do with the choices we make and the circumstances that are put in front of us.
.
WN will very likely adapt and learn how to compete in a very different environment.... and they do have "reserves" to help "finance" the transition. But they are not exempt from the changes that other carriers have experienced and they will have to demonstrate success before returning to the same league they once were in - or the league that other carriers are in right now.

While the AirTran acquisition is indeed a major undertaking, it does not preclude Southwest from conducting business as usual and expanding and improving their existing network and operation. It sounds to me like you're trying to say that this integration is going to change the way Southwest does business on a fundamental level. I'd be curious as to what type of incite you have on Southwest's operation, from which you've come to your conclusions. I see you in the "financial headwinds" thread trying to make your case for the"end of days" of Southwest. With all due respect, it seems like you're TRYING to make something out to be a bit more sensational than it really is.. Southwest has not run into any major trouble all of the sudden. Things are about as turbulent and challenging as ever, and Southwest is persevering as usual. The nay sayers have been waiting in the wings for several years now for the day Southwest would post a net quarterly loss (as many airlines have done many times each in that period of time) so that they could have their AHA! moment. It's actually pretty laughable. Nothing is majorly different all of the sudden as you've been trying to make it sound. Southwest has been a baseball team on a 479 game winning streak, and finally lost one in extra innings.. Step it down a notch..