Flight Attendant

[buscador]

num1bearsfan,

You are correct, WT does have a problem with swa and secretly waits for SWA to fall down and he wants it badly,,, but he has a right to his opinion,, sometimes he stays on point and has valid points...

MY real question is,, Have you as an SWA employee ever had or heard or seen a post from an AT employee saying a postive thing about swa or showed an ounce of gratitude for all they are about to recieve?????

Now even Avtech is back on the DOH kick,, so why doesnt everyone just vote NO, let it go to arbitration,, let them give all AT people even more than a lottery ticket,,,, give them(DOH) too, then watch as SWA suddenly side steps the arbitrators decision by stretching out the merge time,, with creating its own fences,, with hiring people off the street who will be Grateful to have a job here,, by slowing ridding the bad apples by firing or releasing them, because until AT people have a SWA badge they are kinda floating out in the wind,, what union is going to fight vigourously and spend money for an employee that isnt going to be paying that unions dues'???,,,

SWA has a plan b,c,d,e,f,g.... so vote no,, I am curious to see how happy AT will be if it goes that way...All the 717 crews 88 planes equals a lot of people,, oops SWA doesnt need those planes anymore,, so oops it wont be needing those employees anymore,, and they can probably do it because they stretched out the Arbitrators decision and slowed down the integration process,, oops,,, how ironic would that be,, the ones who wanted it all trying to take even more,, got themselves in a little bind,,,oops,,, and O boy,, I can hear the whining then.... I am going to buy lots of popcorn if either the FA's or mech's Go to arbitration....O there is so much that could Happen, I cant even Fathom,, but it wont be a winning bet for the AT people,,, very interesting,,,

Its obvious that somehow AT thinks DOH is fair, that taking everything is fair, the fact SWA employees getting absolutely NOTHING personally is fair,,, its not worth trying to even get them to say thank you or admit this was a wonderful upgrade for all of them,,, so now lets see what happens after the arbitrations.., I will be tuning into that channel.. I wouldnt want to be on that side of the fence when SWA decides to flex its corporate muscles.. good luck,,,

 

[WorldTraveler]

If you, bear, or anyone is interpreting that I am predicting WN's downfall then you are not understanding what I have written. I have indeed noted repeatedly that I believe WN will adapt - but you somehow manage to miss that in your predictions.
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WN's traditional model of high frequency service to/from secondary airports where they can dominate traffic is tapped out... fuel is too high to stimulate traffic the way WN once did, WN's cost difference relative to the rest of the industry is too small to be an advantage, WN does not have the fuel hedge advantages it once had, and WN is indeed moving into the high profile east coast business travel heavy airports they have previously not served - or served much less than they do today. Much of the strategic reason for acquriing FL was to increase WN's presence on the east coast in business markets.
The merger doesn't proclude WN from doign other things including growing their network internally but they aren't doing that in 2012... they already said 2012 will be a no-growth year for WN and their published schedules show that.
If you don't see those changes happening, then they probably don't matter to you anyway... what does matter is WN's profitability which if you are a WN employee or stockholder you will notice because profit sharing is going down.
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WN is a tough competitor and they clearly will continue to do so... but a whole lot of people proclaimed how big of an advantage the FL merger would give WN - and we are now ALL seeing exactly what I said all along - that WN is subject to the same labor issues involved in mergers and that it will take time to sort through the different types of business models that FL and WN used and the networks each operated ... those things happen all the time in mergers... people somehow thought that WN would be exempt from all of that.
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No, WN won't fail but perhaps alot of people will realize they are alot more like every other airline and alot less a superhero which is the image they liked to portray of themselves.

 

[WorldTraveler]

deleted dupe

 

[swamt]

I stand corrected, because I thought your pshyco babble said ATLANTA,,, and here I should of known that what you meant was ATlanta-Sandy springs-marietta-gainseville-Ga-Msp. entire metropolitan area/most of the state ..honest mistake and if you keep adding regions you will end up with some texans in there ,, watch out they wont like that... but at best according to wikipedia you would still barely make the top ten

STill not the same as your post made it sound like,, but again SWA had to have AT or it was done, According to adaspsehrehpuratths;ourefdfs,,... nice try,,

Buscador; Can you do us a favor and post all the ins and outs of the agreement between the SWA and AT F/A's? The only thing we know about is the 2.5 yrs added to SWA, but I believe this is not the case for the ATL and MCO stations. As I guess, at these stations it would be OSD against OSD as in our (mechanics). I mean is that all they came up with? Seems like there should be more, could you throw us some details pls?
Also, if anyone knows out here. Could someone post a better idea of how the pilots were integrated? Just wanted to know how they look as an average % or as an average yearly senority integration. Don't worry Bus, I will be a NO vote on ours.

 

[NYCDelta]

Buscador; Can you do us a favor and post all the ins and outs of the agreement between the SWA and AT F/A's? The only thing we know about is the 2.5 yrs added to SWA, but I believe this is not the case for the ATL and MCO stations. As I guess, at these stations it would be OSD against OSD as in our (mechanics). I mean is that all they came up with? Seems like there should be more, could you throw us some details pls?
Also, if anyone knows out here. Could someone post a better idea of how the pilots were integrated? Just wanted to know how they look as an average % or as an average yearly senority integration. Don't worry Bus, I will be a NO vote on ours.

You posted it yourself in another thread:

Below are some highlights of the agreement:



SENIORITY

•AirTran Flight Attendants on the seniority list as of September 26, 2010 will be credited with their full seniority. (Date of Hire).


•Southwest Flight Attendants on the seniority list as of September 26, 2010 will receive an additional 2 1/2 years of seniority. (Date of Hire + 2.5 years). NOTE: See exception under DOMICILES.

•All (both AirTran and Southwest) Flight Attendants hired after September 26, 2010 will be credited with their “Date Of Hire” seniority. (Date of Hire).

•If both Southwest and AirTran flight attendants share the same seniority date, the Southwest flight attendants will be placed above the AirTran flight attendants.



PAY RATES/WORK RULES


•AirTran flight attendants will continue under the AFA CBA until they cross the “partition” to Southwest.

•Upon crossing the partition, AirTran flight attendants will be credited with their full years of service at AirTran, and paid under the applicable TWU CBA pay rates.

•Upon crossing the partition, AirTran flight attendants will become Southwest flight attendants and members of TWU 556. All aspects of the TWU CBA will be applicable.



DOMICILES

•Southwest will establish an Atlanta Domicile no later than January 1, 2015.

•All bidding within the ATL domicile will be based on “date of hire”. (SWA flight attendants will not receive the “2.5 years of credit increase” for bidding purposes within ATL).

•ATL AirTran flight attendants will have a “first right of return” to the ATL domicile only.

•MCO AirTran flight attendants will have a “first right of return” to both the MCO and ATL domiciles.

•AirTran flight attendants will bid for their domicile prior to attending “Special Merger Training”.

•AirTran flight attendants who do not return to their AirTran domicile will be considered displaced and will be covered by the TWU 556 CBA for moving expenses and provisions.



PROFIT SHARING

•AirTran flight attendants will become eligible for the Southwest Profit Sharing Plan effective January 1, 2012, regardless if they have crossed the “partition”.


TRAINING


•AirTran flight attendants will receive single occupancy rooms during Merger Training.

•Bidding will be done two bid cycles prior to the training event.

•Bidding will be done in seniority order, however, may be awarded by domicile as necessary to protect the AirTran operation.

•Training will be compensated pursuant to the AFA CBA.



VACATION

•AirTran flight attendants will carry all accrued vacation across partition.

•If AirTran flight attendant crosses partition after annual vacation bid, they will rebid for vacation in SWA domicile and be awarded at that seniority level in that domicile, regardless of week availability.

•AirTran flight attendant may opt to “cash out” vacation prior to crossing partition.



UNIFORMS


•AirTran flight attendants will be provided with 5 tops, 5 bottoms, 1 belt, 1 jacket.

•AirTran flight attendants with uniform credits will be paid out the balance of their account after crossing the partition.



PROBATION


•AirTran flight attendants who have successfully completed probation will not be placed on probation after crossing the partition.



SICK LEAVE


•AirTran flight attendants’ accrued and unused sick days will be converted to 7 TFP (trips for pay) per day.



These are some highlights of the agreement only. Additional information about all of these areas, as well as more regarding 401k, personnel files, leaves of absence, insurance, retirement, furlough, etc. may be found in the document itself.

 

[NYCDelta]

I stand corrected, because I thought your pshyco babble said ATLANTA,,, and here I should of known that what you meant was ATlanta-Sandy springs-marietta-gainseville-Ga-Msp. entire metropolitan area/most of the state ..honest mistake and if you keep adding regions you will end up with some texans in there ,, watch out they wont like that... but at best according to wikipedia you would still barely make the top ten

STill not the same as your post made it sound like,, but again SWA had to have AT or it was done, According to adaspsehrehpuratths;ourefdfs,,... nice try,,

With all due respect, people use the entire metropolitan area because that is the catchment area of an airport. Detroit is a good example. If you just look at the city limits of Detroit, the population is just over 700,000, but the Detroit metro area is 5.2 million. When an airline decides on service levels, they look at the metro area because they know that all of these people are potential passengers from DTW, not just the 700,000 (indeed, the airport is not even in Detroit proper.)

Atlanta is even smaller at 420,000; but the entire Atlanta metro area is 5.2 million as well.

 

[buscador]

With all due respect, people use the entire metropolitan area because that is the catchment area of an airport. Detroit is a good example. If you just look at the city limits of Detroit, the population is just over 700,000, but the Detroit metro area is 5.2 million. When an airline decides on service levels, they look at the metro area because they know that all of these people are potential passengers from DTW, not just the 700,000 (indeed, the airport is not even in Detroit proper.)

Atlanta is even smaller at 420,000; but the entire Atlanta metro area is 5.2 million as well.

Ok, now this is well explained and level headed... I thank you for your information and unlike adasspera,, you dont go off on a psycho babble rant,, you are direct, factual and informational.,,,, good Job

 

[signals]

The way I see it, WN was targeting Datlanta for quite awhile. It targeted F9 which was in Datlanta. In his letter to employees, Kelly outlined steps that Southwest will take to stay competitive against Delta.

Apparently SLC was a turning point, IMO.

 

[NYCDelta]

Ok, now this is well explained and level headed... I thank you for your information and unlike adasspera,, you dont go off on a psycho babble rant,, you are direct, factual and informational.,,,, good Job

Thanks

The way I see it, WN was targeting Datlanta for quite awhile. It targeted F9 which was in Datlanta. In his letter to employees, Kelly outlined steps that Southwest will take to stay competitive against Delta.

Apparently SLC was a turning point, IMO.

Not sure I follow you. WN has focused much more on DEN than SLC. I have no doubt they will be successful in ATL, but there will be losers. I would be very surprised if the Flints, and Akrons, and Bransons, and Huntsvilles keep WN service from ATL once all is integrated (I hope I'm wrong-my parents fly FL all the time ex Flint). Once the dust settles, I think WN will serve the top 25 markets out of ATL, plus all of their hubs/focus cities (or whatever they're calling them nowadays): MCO,BWI,MDW,BNA,STL,HOU,DEN,PHX, etc. I think 150-180 flights per day is probably the max. DL/DL Conn. has 1,000+ flights per day from ATL. They will probably be OK.

 

[signals]

Thanks




Not sure I follow you. WN has focused much more on DEN than SLC. I have no doubt they will be successful in ATL, but there will be losers. I would be very surprised if the Flints, and Akrons, and Bransons, and Huntsvilles keep WN service from ATL once all is integrated (I hope I'm wrong-my parents fly FL all the time ex Flint). Once the dust settles, I think WN will serve the top 25 markets out of ATL, plus all of their hubs/focus cities (or whatever they're calling them nowadays): MCO,BWI,MDW,BNA,STL,HOU,DEN,PHX, etc. I think 150-180 flights per day is probably the max. DL/DL Conn. has 1,000+ flights per day from ATL. They will probably be OK.

Yes, Denver! Mental note: WN is focusing Atlanta and Denver...but why? Stay tuned!

NYC Delta with a United avatar
In other discussions,SLC was brought up as a type of one-upsmanship between Delta and Southwest. On the Delta side, Delta believes it won, and I have commented that maybe Datlanta was WN's attack. I always followed WN's attacks on US, and I felt CLT was US's last stand. Suddenly everybody started talking Atlanta.

Someone commented that WN can pull over 250 flights out of Atlanta per day. No it won't put a dent in Delta. But it will bring some noted sweat to the brow.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL and WN's marketshare in SLC has remained virtually constant - w/ DL maintaining a 4 to 1 advantage for more than a decade. WN obviously decided it wasn't worth trying to pry passengers out of DL's hands that weren't going to come over.
DEN is also a much larger market.
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At its peak, FL's operation in ATL was just over 250 flights/day... it then fell to about 220 and is scheduled for a 15% haircut this year.... NYCDelta's prognosis is probably dead on regarding ATL.

 

[buscador]

Buscador; Can you do us a favor and post all the ins and outs of the agreement between the SWA and AT F/A's? The only thing we know about is the 2.5 yrs added to SWA, but I believe this is not the case for the ATL and MCO stations. As I guess, at these stations it would be OSD against OSD as in our (mechanics). I mean is that all they came up with? Seems like there should be more, could you throw us some details pls?
Also, if anyone knows out here. Could someone post a better idea of how the pilots were integrated? Just wanted to know how they look as an average % or as an average yearly senority integration. Don't worry Bus, I will be a NO vote on ours.

As NycDelta beat me to the punch,, that is the jist of our T/A,, voting starts Jan 10th... As in AT fashion(some not all) are saying the %40-50 payraises and upgrades are not enough for FA's.. as there is now a letter being circulated on the AT side prompting the AT FA's to vote no and get that 2.5 years back,, it says lets go to arbitration because there is no way we can lose,, implies that arbitrators will give them EVERYTHING,, so AT Narcissism seems to run deep,,

Then the letter goes on to explain how they may lose their spots in ATL and have to commute,,, wow,, the poor things,, My ??? is who in the world from SWA is going to run to Atlanta??(if you dont live their presently).... there is absolutely no draw for anyone I have been talking too... so not a big problem you can keep ATL,,,, but it is a good excuse to take even more than EVERYTHING,,,, simply amazing,, give me a %50 raise I will commute to China,, O yea, and I would do it without whining ,,,I would actually have the courage to Say Thank You, and might be crazy enough to show some Appreciation(I know, Crazy)

Again, being in a field with %80 women(not sexist) it is in my experience women will vote more so out of fear then men will,, men seem to want more numbers ,%'s, do far more research,, seeing as even our Union is mentioning Arbitration most women I have talked to are voting yes out of Fear,,,,The guys I have talked with are voting NO because they dont like the numbers and feel that AT is stealing the house,,

My prediction ,, an %83+-- Yes vote on both sides... I sure hope that no ones Life at AT is disrupted at all, I mean that may cut into their $30k yr pay raise they will be recieving,, they shouldnt have to do ANYTHING that may disrupt their lifes,,, :unsure: ...,, I think SWA should give anyone at AT that has one Disruption in their life,, even if they have to fly different days than normal and get to stay in ATL,, give them a $100,000 bonus to help them out!!! They Deserve it,, Remember its TWO GREAT airlines coming together,, I will bring my POM-POMs when I vote NO

 

[buscador]

O yea, I guess AT FA's call themselves Trannies,, or so it stated in the LETS TAKE IT ALL letter I read,, here is an interesting note... IF god forbid,, their lifes got disrupted one ounce and they had to commute,, I have heard some crash pad owners talking about charging the trannies %40 more than the SWA commuters,,,, ouch,, ohhh how the divide deepens... again I dont own a crash pad, not my idea, but does anyone else see the irony???

Just keeping you updated on what is going on out in the Real world,,

 

[does this plane go to paris]

DL and WN's marketshare in SLC has remained virtually constant - w/ DL maintaining a 4 to 1 advantage for more than a decade. WN obviously decided it wasn't worth trying to pry passengers out of DL's hands that weren't going to come over.
DEN is also a much larger market.
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At its peak, FL's operation in ATL was just over 250 flights/day... it then fell to about 220 and is scheduled for a 15% haircut this year.... NYCDelta's prognosis is probably dead on regarding ATL.

Is this considered Psycho Babble?!?

 

[buscador]

Is this considered Psycho Babble?!?

,, cmon lets face it,, 95% of all of this is Psycho Babble..especially mine... I just like to type