First Class Flying: A Solution

[ISP]

I flew PIT-PHX on flight 161 earlier this week, and to be honest, I was disgusted with what I was offered. As usual, the F/A's were superior... in fact, possibly the best I've ever had. However, I wanted a better F/C product.

This is something that has been debated over and over again. Yes, the industry has changed, but some people still need a premium product. I believe I've found a solution (this is for transcon and caribbean flying).

For the people that "don't want to pay a premium price," continue serving them the free buy on board meal. If you buy a $200 R/T fare and expect a filegt minon, you need a reality check. These people in F/C would still have a bigger seat, free booze, etc.

Here is my proposal to make things better though. If you actually are one of the few who paid $1200 R/T to fly coast to coast in F, you AUTOMATICALLY get the same meal service circa 1998-2003. In addition,people could still have the option to purchase a $200 coast to coast fare, but there would be a new system implemented. When you clear your upgrade at your respective window, US Airways could call/email and say the following: "Mr. XXX, you have cleared in to F/C for your flight in 3/5/7 days. Currently you will receive a basic buy on board meal for free. However, if you would like to experience a true F/C product, we would like to offer you the opportunity to do so. If you pay an additional fee of $150, we will do just that."

Now, I have no idea how much it would cost per PAX to offer that wonderful F/C product again, but isn't this a good idea? You would still reward your preferred customers by giving them a bigger seat and free booze, and if they REALLY wanted a top scale meal that could pay extra for it. Mabye you could even get a glass with the $100 dollars spent. It might even make the company some extra revenue too. As far as catering goes, do this: stock the galley with "real F/C meals" for the total amount of people who are slated for the better service. In addition, keep an extra two "good meals" in case there are people who clear when doing the gate dance.

Also, you could imprement something with marketing that if you spent the extra $150 to have the "premium F/C," you would also get the 150 % mileage bonus.

What do you all think of this? It is time to think outside the box.

 

[CynicalResAgent]

My 2 cents is that F domestic should be revamped...make it comparable to Midwests famed service. Sell the seats at a decent price (if coach fares range from 150 r/t to 450 r/t then sell the F class at 800r/t ) Only allow upgrades from certain higher fares (in this instance the 350-450 ones) and only for preferred members.

I'd test it in certain markets and if the demand is there they might even add more capacity.

OK, I don't know jack about what our costs are and if these prices would make us profitable. My point that I agree, offer a premium service at a premium price but not an unreasonable price.

Was not UA testing this by putting 757's with a 3 class layout with supposedly reasonable business class fares? Does anyone know if they followed through and how demand vs cost/profit is working out? It seemed smart to me, they cut the capacity thus lowering the availability of seats and offered a service that people actually will pay for, a comfortable seat with a decent meal, on a long flight.

 

[Singleflyer]

You people have your head in the sand. Midwest service is no where near where it was a few years ago. They sell meals on the plane. Only warm Choc chip cookies have remained.

Everybodys service has dropped. But most of the other airlines do still clean their plane.

From ORD to DFW on Sun afternoon flyiny AA on a Paid first class ticket (only one available) All I got was One bag of almonds, and all the pretzels I could eat. The drink was served in a glass. Please tell me how this is better than US other than a clean plane?

 

[PHL]

Bad comparison. ORD to DFW is not that long of a flight (2.5 hrs). Fly AA transcon from MIA, NYC or ORD to LAX. Those are mostly 757's (with 24 seats, mind you) and the service excels way beyond US.

I could care less if I'm in F and only get a snack basket on a 2 hour flight. But when you start getting beyond 3 hours, a bag of almonds isn't going to cut it. Neither is a free crappy coach meal that people in the back pay $10 for.

On the other hand, while I think in concept the OP's idea about differentiating meals seems fair, it's impractical and logistically difficult to implement. You can also imagine the ire of the guy in 2A eating a boxed coach meal while the guy next to him in 2C is savoring a filet, mashed potatoes and a cheesecake dessert.

No, just make F a descent premium product. If it requires changing the fares that can upgrade, then so be it. That's the direction other airlines have taken and they have maintained *SOME* level of premium meal service. Out of curiosity, how have the $499 F fares from PHL-LAS been doing on the 757s with 8 seats? Are those seats filled with paid fares or upgrades?

 

[longing4piedmont]

Why do I get the feeling this is going to turn into a class envy thing real soon?

 

[whlinder]

This is something that has been debated over and over again. Yes, the industry has changed, but some people still need a premium product. I believe I've found a solution (this is for transcon and caribbean flying).

If these people need a premium product, why aren't they paying for it? Are they really willing to pay the cost for a premium product? Is there enough of these people where to make it profitable to provide a premium product?

For the people that "don't want to pay a premium price," continue serving them the free buy on board meal. If you buy a $200 R/T fare and expect a filegt minon, you need a reality check. These people in F/C would still have a bigger seat, free booze, etc.

Here is my proposal to make things better though. If you actually are one of the few who paid $1200 R/T to fly coast to coast in F, you AUTOMATICALLY get the same meal service circa 1998-2003. In addition,people could still have the option to purchase a $200 coast to coast fare, but there would be a new system implemented. When you clear your upgrade at your respective window, US Airways could call/email and say the following: "Mr. XXX, you have cleared in to F/C for your flight in 3/5/7 days. Currently you will receive a basic buy on board meal for free. However, if you would like to experience a true F/C product, we would like to offer you the opportunity to do so. If you pay an additional fee of $150, we will do just that."

$200 + $150 is still money losing for US on a transcon, based on their CASM.

Now, I have no idea how much it would cost per PAX to offer that wonderful F/C product again, but isn't this a good idea? You would still reward your preferred customers by giving them a bigger seat and free booze, and if they REALLY wanted a top scale meal that could pay extra for it. Mabye you could even get a glass with the $100 dollars spent. It might even make the company some extra revenue too. As far as catering goes, do this: stock the galley with "real F/C meals" for the total amount of people who are slated for the better service. In addition, keep an extra two "good meals" in case there are people who clear when doing the gate dance.

Also, you could imprement something with marketing that if you spent the extra $150 to have the "premium F/C," you would also get the 150 % mileage bonus.

What do you all think of this? It is time to think outside the box.

[post="258319"][/post]​

It is an interesting idea, but adding complexity to an already too-complex operation that is understaffed is probably not a good idea at this time.

My 2 cents is that F domestic should be revamped...make it comparable to Midwests famed service. Sell the seats at a decent price (if coach fares range from 150 r/t to 450 r/t then sell the F class at 800r/t ) Only allow upgrades from certain higher fares (in this instance the 350-450 ones) and only for preferred members.

I like your upgrade idea, but US should still try and sell upgrades to non-preferred passengers.

Was not UA testing this by putting 757's with a 3 class layout with supposedly reasonable business class fares? Does anyone know if they followed through and how demand vs cost/profit is working out? It seemed smart to me, they cut the capacity thus lowering the availability of seats and offered a service that people actually will pay for, a comfortable seat with a decent meal, on a long flight.

[post="258324"][/post]​

Yes, UA converted some 757s to 3 classes and fly them JFK-LAX/SFO. They call it P.S. for Personal Service. I don't know how it is doing financially.

My F class/upgrade program would involve changing all domestic planes to 2 rows of 2x3 seating except for a small subset of the fleet that would have three rows of 2x2 F seats. The susbet would be used on transcons and Caribbean flights, while the rest would be the typical short haul stuff. The upgrade program would be similar to Alaska's- preferreds on high fares could upgrade at the time of booking if there is availability, and then upgrades closer to departure based on fares. Upgrade inventory on transcons would be very tight but on short haul it would be pretty loose.

 

[trvlr64]

I wanted a better F/C product.

[post="258319"][/post]​

Then I'd suggest you pay the extra $$ and fly UA, AA or any other airline out of ISP. I'm on a US flight every week of the year. I spend 99% of those flights sitting in FC. I recently had to sit in coach on the PHX-PIT flight. Big deal.

Put on your headphones. Watch the movie if offered. Fall asleep. Read a book. It's funny I do the same thing when sitting in FC.

If you're hoping for the glory days of airtravel get over it. I will say I did enjoy the $5 snack box I got on the PHX-PIT flight. But then again, I don't need a lot when I travel.

 

[KCFlyer]

Why do I get the feeling this is going to turn into a class envy thing real soon?

[post="258343"][/post]​

There's never been any "class envy" l4p...just business questions.

Let me ask you...let's say you own an airline. It's fallen upon some hard times, it's got new low fare competition...so you decide to sell tickets for less than the low fare carrier is selling them for. I am one of your "preferred" (and this isn't class envy...the airlines themselves use terms like "elite" and "preferred" to describe passengers who fly a lot of segments on them). passengers, and lo, these past few months when I've been ready to fly, there have been some fantastic low fares that your airline is offering to the leisure traveller. I know that they are below cost, but hey, if you're dumb enough to offer them, I smart enough to buy them. And...although I've flown 70 segments on your airline this year, 65 of them were at these "highly competitive" fares. Now, last year, before the low fare competition, I might have flown 65 of those 70 segments at a fare that was to a varying degree of profitablity to your airline, so you offered me upgrades as a "thank you" and to help insure my loyalty to your airline. But this year, I'm costing you money.

Now, for the million dollar question - do I still deserve the upgrades you've been giving me since you've always given them to me, or do you tell me that times have changed and your airline has to implement changes that, unfortunately, eliminate some of the perks that you've given me these past years. I complain and vow to take my business elsewhere - even if it means I have to eat into productive time changing planes at another airlines hub. Do I deserve the special treatment this year?

FWIW, in the scenario described in the original post, the cost to US (based on the CASM numbers in their annual report) $413. If someone bought a $200 round trip, and paid another $150 to upgrade, the airline still loses $63 on that ticket.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Why do I get the feeling this is going to turn into a class envy thing real soon?

[post="258343"][/post]​

Am I clairvoyant or what?

KC*, we are not going to have this converstaion again. You don't fly anymore and when you do, you have to sit in coach. It bothers you. It is apparent to all here. Get over it. If you want to fly up front, either fly more or pay for it.

*Or what ever login you decided to use this morning

 

[PHLfa88]

You need to send your complaints to the BoneHeads in CCY running this Mickey Mouse Operation. I'm Embarrased to even work in F/C transcon anymore! h34r:

 

[Travelpro72]

A long, long time ago when we served hot meals in f/c, so much got thrown away. Passengers who declined the meal or no shows.... Most of the time we were always catered with 12 or 24 meals planning for a full f/c. Where I'm going with this is that it was expensive overall. I think they could have a premium product if it was paid for. I know that most of LAS flights with 8 seats on the 757 are usually paid for. Occasionally you will have some upgrades. As a f/a though we prefer to serve a meal and keep busy on those flights contrary to people that may think we like to sit and read our novels and mags.....LOL.... Thinking outside of the box though is a stretch for US. They can't even think IN the box. They have a suggestion program for the crew and it's honestly useless. Useless for the fact that we usually come up with cost saving ideas not money losing ones. Oh well.

 

[longing4piedmont]

FWIW, in the scenario described in the original post, the cost to US (based on the CASM numbers in their annual report) $413. If someone bought a $200 round trip, and paid another $150 to upgrade, the airline still loses $63 on that ticket.

[post="258352"][/post]​

OK rocket scientist, let me ask you question. How much did they lose on that seat if no one bought it? If some paid $200, that is $200 more than had to start with and the seat was still going to be flown with out anyone in it.

The problem is management has destroyed this airline. The point you should be making is that the product has become so bad in the eyes of the flying public, they can't even sell out a plane with $29 go fares. No one wants to fly this pig any more. She stinks.

However since "you" haven't been on a US flight in a very long time you have no clue. So don't come on here and try to be an expert. You have proven you do have no idea what you are talking about time and time again

 

[KCFlyer]

Am I clairvoyant what?

KC*, we are not going to have this converstaion again. You don't fly anymore and when you do, you have to sit in coach. It bothers you. It is apparent to all here. Get over it. If you want to fly up front, either fly more or pay for it.

*Or what ever login you decided to use this morning

[post="258353"][/post]​

I have but one login, thanks anyway. Perhaps you could show me the "class envy" that you predicted? Danged if I can find it in my post. When I reread my post, I only see business related questions. Questions that I feel are valid not just for US Airways, but for the other airlines in or near bankruptcy. Questions that I noticed, you failed to address. IMHO, the market climate is changing.

I guess what you don't see is that after years of paying "blo-fares", and complaining of those same fares that you were charged, and in the day where you were paying significantly more for those tickets, you certainly DID deserve some perks. The airline now offers fares that cost them money....even with a 91% load factor, they are not bringing in enough money to cover the costs of the flight. They are not getting enough to cover the costs from me, and they aren't getting enough to cover the costs from you. Now...tell me why you deserve all the perks in this day and age? I know, I know...if the airline is stupid enough to offer the fares, then you're savvy enough to buy the fare.

I've said, long before the cockroach club or FFUCOS, that the fares are the problem. I think Alaska has a winning idea - reasonable fares for coach and first class - but hold off on giving away the first class seats until all passengers have had a chance to BUY the first class seat. But in a nod to "class envy" I realize that such a solution would be blasted by you and the other "cockroach" members because the risk is high that there won't be enough seats in F left for you to upgrade to.

 

[SKY HIGH]

The point you should be making is that the product has become so bad in the eyes of the flying public, they can't even sell out a plane with $29 go fares. No one wants to fly this pig any more.

Sky high states: Wrong. LOAD FACTORS are high. Board a transcon these days and you'll find NO empties. Try getting on a florida flight too! Just two examples.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Sky high states: Wrong. LOAD FACTORS are high. Board a transcon these days and you'll find NO empties. Try getting on a florida flight too! Just two examples.

[post="258364"][/post]​

This week and maybe next. Some one correct me but I think the load factor last month was around 70%. I was on eleven US flights last week. One was a BJ and one was a buzz bucket. Of the other nine, four left with empty seats in first. They can't even get a preferred to fly and upgrade any more and it's free. And I saw no takers on the $50 upgrade chances they were trying to sell at the gate.

ISP. I my sorry for taking your thread off topic. You brought some ideas to the thread to be discussed and I took it off course. I'll now go back to my dark corner and start cutting out lipstick ads. That is unless we have more class envy to address and I feel it coming on again