F/A Sick Clear Time 1600/1100

[operaations]

I am trying to get a little idea opf what the Actual Flight Attendant work force would like to see. Currently we have the sick list removed at 1600. That prohibits alot of great trips from going to the Available flight attendants..and straight to make up. It also affects the rerserve numbers.

I feel if the sick list was changed to 1100 it would allow the avbl commuters and alos mu commuters pick up a wider range of trips rather than waiting till 1600 to see what is open.

The rumor I hear is that the base that is holding this up is the APFA in ORD.

I am just curious to see what you all have to say.

If you want it changed i ask you to bombard your APFA base chair and the Headquarters here in useless to make a change

if not...than status quo

 

[Skymess]

I am trying to get a little idea opf what the Actual Flight Attendant work force would like to see. Currently we have the sick list removed at 1600. That prohibits alot of great trips from going to the Available flight attendants..and straight to make up. It also affects the rerserve numbers.

I feel if the sick list was changed to 1100 it would allow the avbl commuters and alos mu commuters pick up a wider range of trips rather than waiting till 1600 to see what is open.

The rumor I hear is that the base that is holding this up is the APFA in ORD.

I am just curious to see what you all have to say.

If you want it changed i ask you to bombard your APFA base chair and the Headquarters here in useless to make a change

if not...than status quo

12 noon is the time I'd like to see. Why would ORD be the one holding it up vs. other bases?
Changing the sick clearance time alone isn't really going to help anyone unless it changes the avbl,MU, and RSV windows as well. If sick clearance time changes without the others, I'm voting NO.

 

[operaations]

12 noon is the time I'd like to see. Why would ORD be the one holding it up vs. other bases?
Changing the sick clearance time alone isn't really going to help anyone unless it changes the avbl,MU, and RSV windows as well. If sick clearance time changes without the others, I'm voting NO.

If you cchange it to 1200 or 1100 it would allow the avbls to obtain trips otherwise slotted for reserves. In some cases it would allow for reserve releases at night. For example...during the christmas and new years dates LGA alone had upwards of 40 plus avbl people a day . with no open ntrips and 30 plus trips on the sick list.

at the current way of doing things we release all the avbls and use what limited reserve we have and re assign for the rest. It is a broken system.

I am all for changing the other times. Reserve plat at 1800 local base time instead of 1900 make up right after avbl. Better yet lets just plot reserve right after the mu run.

I think it would be a winn win situation

why is ord holding it up. I have no idea

 

[youbetcha]

12 noon is the time I'd like to see. Why would ORD be the one holding it up vs. other bases?
Changing the sick clearance time alone isn't really going to help anyone unless it changes the avbl,MU, and RSV windows as well. If sick clearance time changes without the others, I'm voting NO.

Wouldn't that require some FAs, specifically anyone with a late sign in, to clear nearly 36 hours before their flight? If that were me, I would clear, wait to see how I feel the next day, then possibly call in sk again. It would only be 1 occurrence but it would cause more to be needed on reserve for those last minute sick calls.

No way.

 

[Garfield1966]

Wouldn't that require some FAs, specifically anyone with a late sign in, to clear nearly 36 hours before their flight? If that were me, I would clear, wait to see how I feel the next day, then possibly call in sk again. It would only be 1 occurrence but it would cause more to be needed on reserve for those last minute sick calls.

No way.

Not sure what you are trying to say. The only trips in question are for the following day. The way it is right now would only be a four hour difference in what ever scenario your are thinking of. 32 verses 36 hours.

Skymess,

Things at AA much less any other corporation are only done one step at a time. IF the SK clear time is changed and that helps the AVBLs plot better and be utilized better, perhaps that will be reflected in seniority for RSV dropping and then people can start working on other issues. It's not going to happen in one fell swoop. If people are waiting for that to happen we might as well all sit back and watch the carnage.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

I would hope this will be included in contract negotiations as part of a complete open time overhaul.
until then ...no thanks for many reasons.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

It was already changed several years ago from 1700 to 1600, based on the company's promise that they would get out the reserve assignments sooner and more efficiently. All we did was give Crew Schedule another hour to waste because they are STILL late on the assignments.

This keeps coming up because the COMPANY wants it. If we all haven't learned by now that if the company wants it so badly, it CAN'T be to benefit us. Certainly, there could be some benefits to us on this, but the company would not be pushing so hard, bringing it up again and again if there wasn't something in it for them, and the "something in it for them" is ALWAYS $$$$.

So, I ask the company, "What's it worth to you?" We were told during the RPA and in the ensuing years that everything has a price tag, and any improvements must be cost neutral.

They want it so bad for reason. What are THEY willing to give for it?

To all flight attendants on this board who are willing to once again let the company bargain directly with the membership, I ask you, "What has it gotten you so far?"

 

[Skymess]

Not sure what you are trying to say. The only trips in question are for the following day. The way it is right now would only be a four hour difference in what ever scenario your are thinking of. 32 verses 36 hours.

Skymess,

Things at AA much less any other corporation are only done one step at a time. IF the SK clear time is changed and that helps the AVBLs plot better and be utilized better, perhaps that will be reflected in seniority for RSV dropping and then people can start working on other issues. It's not going to happen in one fell swoop. If people are waiting for that to happen we might as well all sit back and watch the carnage.

Garfield, are you ok? This post sounds a little too idealistic to be you. You're not going to change the sick call problem by moving the time up or down.

First: If the company is changing one thing at a time, it's NEVER in our favor. That's why we would NEVER go for that alone.

As for sick:
If someone is really sick, they call in right away.
If someone is borderline sick, they call in last minute.
If someone is planning to be sick, and they really aren't sick, they have their own sick clearance time scheduled that has NOTHING to do with AA sick clearance time unless it is a coincidence.

Let's go over your "AVBL...utilized better" comment. When you guys "utilize" AVBL and assign them trips as though they were reserve..... you are lucky when they don't call in sick. Nobody wants the company to be utilizing them on reserve, much less on a non reserve month.
I know that most FAs think like me. My whole goal is to NOT be the company's b*tch. I work day and night to do my schedule on AVBL or a line month in order to ensure I am less available for their plotting hours and for my reserve month.

The only reason sick clearance move up would be better would be if MU moved up (and actually stopped at a certain time) so that reserves could get their trips at 5pm.

The problem would still be that those who are going to call in sick late, will still always call in sick late. So, as everyone else stated, what can the company do for me by changing sick clearance time?

 

[youbetcha]

Garfield, are you ok? This post sounds a little too idealistic to be you. You're not going to change the sick call problem by moving the time up or down.

First: If the company is changing one thing at a time, it's NEVER in our favor. That's why we would NEVER go for that alone.

As for sick:
If someone is really sick, they call in right away.
If someone is borderline sick, they call in last minute.
If someone is planning to be sick, and they really aren't sick, they have their own sick clearance time scheduled that has NOTHING to do with AA sick clearance time unless it is a coincidence.

Let's go over your "AVBL...utilized better" comment. When you guys "utilize" AVBL and assign them trips as though they were reserve..... you are lucky when they don't call in sick. Nobody wants the company to be utilizing them on reserve, much less on a non reserve month.
I know that most FAs think like me. My whole goal is to NOT be the company's b*tch. I work day and night to do my schedule on AVBL or a line month in order to ensure I am less available for their plotting hours and for my reserve month.

The only reason sick clearance move up would be better would be if MU moved up (and actually stopped at a certain time) so that reserves could get their trips at 5pm.

The problem would still be that those who are going to call in sick late, will still always call in sick late. So, as everyone else stated, what can the company do for me by changing sick clearance time?

If you get reserve trips out by 1700 then all you have accomplished is putting everyone on ready while crew sked calls the reserves all night long while trips continue to open up. Many trips open up after 5PM. Maybe not so much on international but they sure do on domestic. All those who come in late and have a trip the next day, go illegal, but the trip doesn't open up most times until they actually land. Or, the FAs whose trip cancels downline. They don't get back for their next trip. Any weather session completley changes the next days operations. Seems like MORE reserves would be needed to be on ready reserve to cover all these trips that open after 1700 in your scenario.

This sounds like a commuter issue. Wanting trips earlier in the day so that one can get to base? Why should a FA with a 2100 sign in have to clear at 1200 the day before so that a commuter can choose a trip? That puts an enormous and unfair burden on a FA who is out sick just to make someone else's life easier?

I think the better idea is to make sure that FAs use the firm or tentative clearance option. That way, you will know well in advance if a trip is going to be open or not. If it is firm, the trip(s) drop in right away. If tentative, then they sit until the FA makes the decision to clear or not. If more FAs used the firm clearance date, then all FAs would have access to those trips in open time well in advance.

I agree that management wants to change the sk clearance badly. They have already had several changes to it and have not come through with any of the promises they have made to go with it. The reserve tape is out later than ever.

If AA wants to add it to the negotiations list, then let them PAY for it and get firm contractuall language on all aspects of it.

Otherwise, it is a huge giveaway for a small percentage of FAs as compared to the amount of FAs not on AVBL who should have the right to use their sick time without the added stress of early clearance.

 

[Garfield1966]

So how about pushing AVBL till 1700?

 

[Garfield1966]

Straighttalk,
RSV assignments are out by 1900 when the tape goes on. We can plot them at whatever time you want us too. As someone else pointed out, sick calls will come after the tape goes on and we will still be calling people.

I have no idea what the companies motivation is but if the sick list were to clear before the time limit for AVBL’s did (hell screw the sick list, allow the AVBLS to plot till 1700) then they will get a better selection of trips and we will not plot them on the stuff they don’t want and won’t feel like reserves.

Skymess,
I don’t care about how, when someone calls in sick. Most do not give a firm date so the trips just hang there. As I said above, if the AVBLS could have a shot at the sick list, then we would not be plotting you and you would not be the company #### as often (someone is going to get assigned the 3D Carib sequence but someone will have a shot at FCO, GRU or some of the other good stuff as well. This has nothing to do with the sick list or those who abuse it. That’s a different thread and a different issue.

You can get your trips at 5p, hell you can have them at 12n for all I care. As someone else mentioned, we get a lot of sick calls after the tape goes on as it is (that’s why I do not run my last round of MU till 1800 and plot by 1845 or so because I hate running MU 10 times between 1600-1900 for all the sick calls. Bottom line is we will still be calling a good number of reserves after the tape goes on for sick calls.

Skymess, are you telling me you don’t look at the sick list and wish you had a shot at some of those trips before all the senior people snatch them up on MU because they dumped their entire line? Because the way it sits right now, all you can do is look at them and dream.

Youbetcha,

How does 4 hours make such a difference? I guess I just don’t see it. If I am sick at 1600, I’m sick at 1200. I get the impression that most know I they will be on a trip or not well before that time. That time is just as random as 21 is for the drinking age. Someone picked an age and went with it. There is no science behind it.

If you make them use a “firm†date then they will just call in for one trip and extend the date trip by trip.

As for the commuters, screw them. I work where I live and live where I work (I know, a novel idea). Why we cater to commuters is beyond me.
Added stress of early clearance? OH please.


I’m not so certain it is a “give away†as some have said. AVBL does not have to be offered. Part of the plan for this past 2007 holiday was to have AVBL’s at the end of the month to pick up the sequences. We told bean counters (what a bunch of idiots) that the AVBLS would not help because the sick list clears after the AVBL window. We release AVBL’s by the truck load. I think someone might have finally realized the problem with AVBL/SK list. If they have, you might see a huge reduction in AVBL lines and an increase in RSV lines since as it stands not, AVBL is useless. So perhaps a better way to look at this is clearing the sick list earlier might help save your AVBL lines. Just an idea.

 

[youbetcha]

Straighttalk,
RSV assignments are out by 1900 when the tape goes on. We can plot them at whatever time you want us too. As someone else pointed out, sick calls will come after the tape goes on and we will still be calling people.

I have no idea what the companies motivation is but if the sick list were to clear before the time limit for AVBL’s did (hell screw the sick list, allow the AVBLS to plot till 1700) then they will get a better selection of trips and we will not plot them on the stuff they don’t want and won’t feel like reserves.

Skymess,
I don’t care about how, when someone calls in sick. Most do not give a firm date so the trips just hang there. As I said above, if the AVBLS could have a shot at the sick list, then we would not be plotting you and you would not be the company #### as often (someone is going to get assigned the 3D Carib sequence but someone will have a shot at FCO, GRU or some of the other good stuff as well. This has nothing to do with the sick list or those who abuse it. That’s a different thread and a different issue.

You can get your trips at 5p, hell you can have them at 12n for all I care. As someone else mentioned, we get a lot of sick calls after the tape goes on as it is (that’s why I do not run my last round of MU till 1800 and plot by 1845 or so because I hate running MU 10 times between 1600-1900 for all the sick calls. Bottom line is we will still be calling a good number of reserves after the tape goes on for sick calls.

Skymess, are you telling me you don’t look at the sick list and wish you had a shot at some of those trips before all the senior people snatch them up on MU because they dumped their entire line? Because the way it sits right now, all you can do is look at them and dream.

Youbetcha,

How does 4 hours make such a difference? I guess I just don’t see it. If I am sick at 1600, I’m sick at 1200. I get the impression that most know I they will be on a trip or not well before that time. That time is just as random as 21 is for the drinking age. Someone picked an age and went with it. There is no science behind it.

If you make them use a “firm†date then they will just call in for one trip and extend the date trip by trip.

As for the commuters, screw them. I work where I live and live where I work (I know, a novel idea). Why we cater to commuters is beyond me.
Added stress of early clearance? OH please.


I’m not so certain it is a “give away†as some have said. AVBL does not have to be offered. Part of the plan for this past 2007 holiday was to have AVBL’s at the end of the month to pick up the sequences. We told bean counters (what a bunch of idiots) that the AVBLS would not help because the sick list clears after the AVBL window. We release AVBL’s by the truck load. I think someone might have finally realized the problem with AVBL/SK list. If they have, you might see a huge reduction in AVBL lines and an increase in RSV lines since as it stands not, AVBL is useless. So perhaps a better way to look at this is clearing the sick list earlier might help save your AVBL lines. Just an idea.

Once upon a time, we could clear the same day. The clearance time has moved up and up with broken promise after broken promise. No more. Changing the sk clearance time is a band aid on a gaping wound. It just harms the FA who has the right to call in sick when sick and who shouldn't have to worry about anybody's avbl schedule. We took a cut in sick time to keep this company solvent. Crew sked needs to figure out how to make things work and not off our backs.
Given the unshared rewards that upper management has given themselves for such poor performance as being next to last in on time performance, well, let them earn it. If they want us to fix their problems that they created, again, then they will have to pay for it.
I'm sick of crew sked coming to us to fix what they refuse to fix themselves. Their only answer is to slap more FAs on reserve. That only creates more of a problem.

 

[Skymess]

Skymess,
I don’t care about how, when someone calls in sick. Most do not give a firm date so the trips just hang there. As I said above, if the AVBLS could have a shot at the sick list, then we would not be plotting you and you would not be the company #### as often (someone is going to get assigned the 3D Carib sequence but someone will have a shot at FCO, GRU or some of the other good stuff as well. This has nothing to do with the sick list or those who abuse it. That’s a different thread and a different issue.

You can get your trips at 5p, hell you can have them at 12n for all I care. As someone else mentioned, we get a lot of sick calls after the tape goes on as it is (that’s why I do not run my last round of MU till 1800 and plot by 1845 or so because I hate running MU 10 times between 1600-1900 for all the sick calls. Bottom line is we will still be calling a good number of reserves after the tape goes on for sick calls.

Skymess, are you telling me you don’t look at the sick list and wish you had a shot at some of those trips before all the senior people snatch them up on MU because they dumped their entire line? Because the way it sits right now, all you can do is look at them and dream.


I’m not so certain it is a “give away†as some have said. AVBL does not have to be offered. Part of the plan for this past 2007 holiday was to have AVBL’s at the end of the month to pick up the sequences. We told bean counters (what a bunch of idiots) that the AVBLS would not help because the sick list clears after the AVBL window. We release AVBL’s by the truck load. I think someone might have finally realized the problem with AVBL/SK list. If they have, you might see a huge reduction in AVBL lines and an increase in RSV lines since as it stands not, AVBL is useless. So perhaps a better way to look at this is clearing the sick list earlier might help save your AVBL lines. Just an idea.

Garfield,

Of course I wish I had a shot at the trips the MU people get. It's one of the reasons I don't agree with running MU a hundred times. MU should be run 2 times a day during set hours and not after those hours.

The AVBL issue is one of the major reasons the former negotiators don't side with Glading. One of her babies was eliminating AVBL so she and her cronies could get better trips on MU. If you Glading supporters don't believe it than you should try emailing or calling some of the former negotiators.

No thanks.

There are ways to make things better and taking away AVBL is not even open for discussion in my book. It was one of the reasons the TA before Ward was elected was shot down.

 

[pickles]

A summary of the Tom's union poodle Legacy....



A Tom's union poodle represenative in a hot air balloon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted a line flight attendant below. He descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised another Tom's union poodle I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am." The line flight attendant below replied, "You're in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 30 feet
above the ground. You're between 40 and 41 degrees north latitude andbetween 59 and 60 degrees west longitude." "You must be an informed line flight attendant," said the Tom's union poodle. "I am," replied the line flight attendant, "How did you know?" "Well," answered the Tom's union poodle, "everything you told me is, technically correct,
but I've no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I'm still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help at all. If anything, you've delayed my trip." The line flight attendant below responded, "You must be a career BOTWT politician and APFA represenative. "I am both," replied the Tom's union poodle, "but how did you know?" "Well," said the line flight attendant, "You don't know where you are or where you're going. You have risen to where you
are, due to a large quantity of HOT AIR. You made a promise, which you've no idea how to keep, and you expect people beneath you to solve your problems. The fact is you are in exactly the same position you were in before we met, but now, somehow, it's my fault."

HORTON DFW

 

[operaations]

Once upon a time, we could clear the same day. The clearance time has moved up and up with broken promise after broken promise. No more. Changing the sk clearance time is a band aid on a gaping wound. It just harms the FA who has the right to call in sick when sick and who shouldn't have to worry about anybody's avbl schedule. We took a cut in sick time to keep this company solvent. Crew sked needs to figure out how to make things work and not off our backs.
Given the unshared rewards that upper management has given themselves for such poor performance as being next to last in on time performance, well, let them earn it. If they want us to fix their problems that they created, again, then they will have to pay for it.
I'm sick of crew sked coming to us to fix what they refuse to fix themselves. Their only answer is to slap more FAs on reserve. That only creates more of a problem.

Youbetcha...you dont get it...I never asked if you the f/a will fix the problem....I know there is a price on everything ...i only mentioned changing the sick clearence...of course the company would need to give up something in return.

But you say crew sched need to figure how to make things work....we do already. For example...Re Assign..strip to minimum crew.......and yes making it work will comeoff your backs. If you want the reserve list to shorten than make some changes in AVBL.

Name some Examples how Crew Sched comes to you for help fixing a problem.....I am sick of Flight service and the APFA coming to us. It is a give and take but both sides only want to take.

So we either get together the real work force not the APFA management and not the AA Management.(the F/A and the actual Schedulers and pound out a contract) make it work or just sit here and watch them decide for us how it wont work