Equity Update

[WeAAsles]

Yea but... aren't we looking at increased contracting out of T2 and Fleet? Also, isn't the IAM facing losing their pension and medical?

Shouldn't these issues be strike issues or...if not, then what?

They should at least be issues of more importance than about a dozen or so Social Media bullhorns have tried to make them.

At this moment particularly from what we know publicly I see ZERO reason for the IAM to agree to release anything for their membership to vote on. There group as far as Fleet is being offered a completely concessionary deal against what they already currently have.

Those who think they should accept it anyway for a vote because of the pressure of Section 6 are IMO making assinine comments.

Assinine because they know that there could be a strong possibility with a few tweaks of it passing with purely a TWU vote stepping on IAM Members like they’re a bunch of bugs.

It’s selfish at this moment to even try to push the IAM side to give in and bend over.

 

[WeAAsles]

That's how the IAM could sell a TA.

So let me see if I got this straight? You think that something should be released and that the IAM (You didn’t mention Association) could then sell it to their Members that they need to vote a resounding no so (they) can get a better deal perhaps in Section 6? (Again giving TWU Members the possibility of out voting them by a decent margin)

I don’t think they’re going to likely agree at all with your recommendation personally.

Again you didn’t say that’s how the “Association” could sell a TA?

 

[Rusty Hilock]

They should at least be issues of more importance than about a dozen or so Social Media bullhorns have tried to make them.

At this moment particularly from what we know publicly I see ZERO reason for the IAM to agree to release anything for their membership to vote on. There group as far as Fleet is being offered a completely concessionary deal against what they already currently have.

Those who think they should accept it anyway for a vote because of the pressure of Section 6 are IMO making assinine comments.

Assinine because they know that there could be a strong possibility with a few tweaks of it passing with purely a TWU vote stepping on IAM Members like they’re a bunch of bugs.

It’s selfish at this moment to even try to push the IAM side to give in and bend over.

"It’s selfish at this moment to even try to push the IAM side to give in and bend over."


I would call IAM members looking a TWU Shop Steward in the Eye and telling them point blank they don't care if WE EVER GET A JCBA SELFISH to the 10th degree.

"We have our Money NOW plus Our Holidays." Sounds like real Sharing to me from the IAM Members..

One of the biggest SNAFU's that AA did was to give the $9.00 / HR pay increase without getting the JCBA.

 

[NYer]

So let me see if I got this straight? You think that something should be released and that the IAM (You didn’t mention Association) could then sell it to their Members that they need to vote a resounding no so (they) can get a better deal perhaps in Section 6? (Again giving TWU Members the possibility of out voting them by a decent margin)

I don’t think they’re going to likely agree at all with your recommendation personally.

Again you didn’t say that’s how the “Association” could sell a TA?

Obviously, the IAM and TWU have different perspectives on this.

The IAM would have a more challenging argument to make if there is a vote before Section 6. They may get creative in their reasoning but if it comes out they will have to present it in a way that it appears to be for another reason that just their mere acceptance of a vote.

The reasoning will surely be branded as the Association.

 

[B737 driver]

"It’s selfish at this moment to even try to push the IAM side to give in and bend over."


I would call IAM members looking a TWU Shop Steward in the Eye and telling them point blank they don't care if WE EVER GET A JCBA SELFISH to the 10th degree.

"We have our Money NOW plus Our Holidays." Sounds like real Sharing to me from the IAM Members..

One of the biggest SNAFU's that AA did was to give the $9.00 / HR pay increase without getting the JCBA.

If it takes both the IAM and the TWU to sign off to even get a JCBA or if you get to section 6, then it will be forever and a day, because the IAM won't want to lose their pension, and medical. So the only thing I see getting this to move, is have a TWU card drive, you have the votes to swing that. Then you would be in the drivers seat for negotiations.

 

[WeAAsles]

"It’s selfish at this moment to even try to push the IAM side to give in and bend over."


I would call IAM members looking a TWU Shop Steward in the Eye and telling them point blank they don't care if WE EVER GET A JCBA SELFISH to the 10th degree.

"We have our Money NOW plus Our Holidays." Sounds like real Sharing to me from the IAM Members..

One of the biggest SNAFU's that AA did was to give the $9.00 / HR pay increase without getting the JCBA.

No I don’t consider the IAM to be selfish at all. I consider the Company to be playing games that I’m not stupid enough to fall for.

In Fleet I have to LOVE how they sweetened the deal taking most Deicing off the table but OOPS we forgot that Catering.

Here’s the reality as I see it. Speaking for our group.

They don’t need to have any outsourcing. And they don’t need to continue to screw us with the crappy Medical.

Oh and if I was an IAM Member that’s exactly what I would be saying especially if I had some A Holes telling me that I have to give up crap for them. Some of our guys are lucky some IAM guys aren’t spitting in their faces.

 

[WeAAsles]

Obviously, the IAM and TWU have different perspectives on this.

The IAM would have a more challenging argument to make if there is a vote before Section 6. They may get creative in their reasoning but if it comes out they will have to present it in a way that it appears to be for another reason that just their mere acceptance of a vote.

The reasoning will surely be branded as the Association.

Again I’m not sure why you think they should accept a concessionary deal? And what do you mean a “challenging argument”?

Why do you think they should or are going to accept something that would be “challenging” to explain to their Members.

You keep saying you have thought from their perspective on things. My perspective if I was in their shoes is that I would tell the Company and anyone else to go take a flying leap if you want US to take concessions so YOU can get improvements. It’s not my fault you guys are under a Bankruptcy Agreement and I’m not interested in coming down to where you are but I am interested in helping you come up to our level.

 

[Rusty Hilock]

If it takes both the IAM and the TWU to sign off to even get a JCBA or if you get to section 6, then it will be forever and a day, because the IAM won't want to lose their pension, and medical. So the only thing I see getting this to move, is have a TWU card drive, you have the votes to swing that. Then you would be in the drivers seat for negotiations.

This is exactly what both the AFL-CIO and AA likes: DIVISION between the 2 groups that was created when the AFL-CIO rammed The Association wherever : FILL IN THE BLANK _______________
This prevents us from ever having the UNITY to bring in another UNION on the property.

More B.S.= AA has AMT openings RECENTLY listed on the careers page at PHX and it appears they are ignoring the TWU TRANSFER LIST. PHX has been an AA Station for Decades and IT APPEARS they will hire new AMT's on the IAM side. That sure improves UNITY BETWEEN THE 2 UNIONS.

"Go Team'!!!

 

[MetalMover]

This is exactly what both the AFL-CIO and AA likes: DIVISION between the 2 groups that was created when the AFL-CIO rammed The Association wherever : FILL IN THE BLANK _______________
This prevents us from ever having the UNITY to bring in another UNION on the property.

More B.S.= AA has AMT openings RECENTLY listed on the careers page at PHX and it appears they are ignoring the TWU TRANSFER LIST. PHX has been an AA Station for Decades and IT APPEARS they will hire new AMT's on the IAM side. That sure improves UNITY BETWEEN THE 2 UNIONS.

"Go Team'!!!

Go ASSociation!

 

[Rusty Hilock]

You are not a Trade Unionist.

Company man and IGM.

The IAM will not “sell” a concessionary contract.

The Last Time I looked it was American Airlines and NOT "The Association" who signs my paycheck.

 

[NYer]

Again I’m not sure why you think they should accept a concessionary deal? And what do you mean a “challenging argument”?

Why do you think they should or are going to accept something that would be “challenging” to explain to their Members.

You keep saying you have thought from their perspective on things. My perspective if I was in their shoes is that I would tell the Company and anyone else to go take a flying leap if you want US to take concessions so YOU can get improvements. It’s not my fault you guys are under a Bankruptcy Agreement and I’m not interested in coming down to where you are but I am interested in helping you come up to our level.

Then I guess you believe there is a zero chance there is a vote before Section 6? Correct?

 

[1986Mekanic]

I know all you guys are way ahead of me, please bare with me , I'm a little slow.

Rusty says, contracting out of T2 and fleet is acceptable to AC maint because we have been getting our asses handed to our title group for years as far as out sourcing and it seems no other title group or the Union has done anything to stop it, and in fact other title groups have taken AC maintenance work. Hmm, interesting point Rusty.

IAM pension frozen? "join the club" our's is frozen too, so that's a non issue. IAM medical, non issue,, we are all under LAA medical, so again, " join the club". Maybe a cap though? And a "me too" clause in case the APA or APFA improves it for themselves?

I think we pretty much all agree, there wont be any strike.

But the possibility for a long drawn Sec 6 is real with it culminating in "Mediation" which will also be drawn out at which point we will most likely end up being offered pretty much what we are be offered today.

Is this what your saying Rusty? Because, if so, Maybe I don't necessarily disagree with you. Just never thought of it like that.

So then , when it presented in those terms, I could possibly see that it might be a good idea to get final language written on the company's offer and put it to a vote. In which case a resounding no vote would send the strongest of signals to the company and a mediator if it goes to that.

 

[Rusty Hilock]

Your the selfish one trying to screw over the IAM side for your own personal gain.

Unions are not about that.

Not any IAM member’s fault you are under a bankruptcy contract and they are not.

You are playing right into the company’s hands.

Great way to show solidarity, NOT!

The IAM LUS does not know ANYTHING about "Solidarity" Where was the LUS- IAM Leadership during all the Informational Pickets last year??? The LUS -IAM was no where to be seen at the Pickets. At DFW it was General Dynamics IAM Lodge 776 walking the line with us. Where was the LUS-IAM??? The IAM should be ASHAMED of themselves because we actually got more support from the Pilots.
We even had IBT and AMFA folks on the DFW Picket




Many TWU / IAM members are quickly becoming exactly like the Company they are railing against.
Constantly calling the Company Greedy

 

[NYer]

So then , when it presented in those terms, I could possibly see that it might be a good idea to get final language written on the company's offer and put it to a vote. In which case a resounding no vote would send the strongest of signals to the company and a mediator if it goes to that.

There are consequences to going into Section 6.

Just couple for us to overcome.

1. If we're in Mediation until December 2019 it would mean we could be about $2 per hour behind them (Fleet). That being the case, how long could we hold out and will the Members accept not having an opportunity to decide on that?

2. The APA and APFA have negotiations in 2019. Would the NMB hold us on ice until those groups TA the current LAA medical which pressures the IAM in their stance while the raises and other benefits surpass the value of the medical?

That's just two examples.

 

[WeAAsles]

Then I guess you believe there is a zero chance there is a vote before Section 6? Correct?

Actually I’m leaning more towards the possibility of votes occurring before Section 6 because I will admit the Company has been progressively modifying their positions?

Again though as the Three Musketeers said “All for one, one for all”

If there aren’t deals made for all the Association Represented Groups then I think I can make a 99.9% sure bet that we will be going into Section 6 without ANY votes.