Early Brake Release ?
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Garfield1966
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Gosh, I thought we were the only ones who worked 8 hours straight with no lunch and got paid straight time for training on our own time. Whew!!! Nice to know we are not alone.
Then again, I knew that those were the rules of the game because I actually read the work rules of the department I went into. I even recall the part about working weekends, night and holidays.
Then again, I knew that those were the rules of the game because I actually read the work rules of the department I went into. I even recall the part about working weekends, night and holidays.
Hopeful
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GARFIEld199:
You're typical management sort! Did I complain about holidays and weekend work?
Most folks I know work a 40 hour week, with a PAID 1/2 hour lunch!
Since I'm not a pilot or F/A, if I were to work 4 hours overtime, I would get TIME AND ONE-HALF for those 4 hours. SO why shouldn't training be paid the same?
SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IF YOU WORK OT OR STAY FOR TRAINING??????????????
You're typical management sort! Did I complain about holidays and weekend work?
Most folks I know work a 40 hour week, with a PAID 1/2 hour lunch!
Since I'm not a pilot or F/A, if I were to work 4 hours overtime, I would get TIME AND ONE-HALF for those 4 hours. SO why shouldn't training be paid the same?
SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IF YOU WORK OT OR STAY FOR TRAINING??????????????
oldbscaler
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Well here is an interesting thought. While the out time for most legacy carriers is establisted by the door closed/ brake release via ACARS, WN who I believe does not use ACARS, but calls the times back just like we all did in the old days seem to be that much more ontime than the rest. Is it five minutes or six? Just a thought.
Happy holidays!
Happy holidays!
Kev3188
Veteran
The problem isn't that the flight crews are getting paid for a few extra minutes. It's that mgmt. is using those false out times to cover up gross staffing shortages at most line stations. :angry:
silverbirdFLL
Member
How about this little story. You talk about GREEEEED I'll tell ya.
Picture it MIA c.1996ish.I am based in MIA Int'l(IMA is correct code used for f/a's based in the international operation @ MIA) & I am working a 3 day B727/757 as Purser(@ AA ALL int'l flights have a qualifyed Purser working the #1/lead pos. regardless of a/c type). We had just landed in MIA for the 5pm "bank" so as you know how MIA ops. our gate was ocpd. A A300 dest. LIM had a mech. and "ramp control" would not give us another gate so we had to wait. Well the only thing the cabin crew cared about was getting through customs&imigration and making it to the MIA empl.parking lot intime to get on I-95 so we wouldnt miss rush hour south FLA style,yes we were completing our seq.The c/p crew (727 so how many pilots does a B727 have? hehe no silly not counting the...never mind I'll be nice) however was in the middle of there seq. and were gonna go onto somewhere in the carib or c.a. you know where AA sent the B727 out of MIA. Well OK the juice of this so you can move on.....as the Purser I sat at FWD j/s doorside and the #3 f/a sat asileside.We could hear the chatter from the c/p and the radeo so ya know we knew w/o being told what was up. WELL with out notice,no call no nothing,the c/p door come flying open the f/e(flight engineer-lol) comes out and goes right to the FWD entry door and CRACKS it open!!!!! YES yes the door is still ARMED and we are still in our j/s's (I know hard to believe). The f/e doesn't say a word to me/us just opens the door until either the capt.or f/o says OK that did it and he then closes the door and returns to the c/p and shuts that door. I looked at the #3 and just asked "You just see what I saw?" Oh yes couldnt miss that one for sure. Well nothing was ever said fr. the capt. and to be honest I didn't call him to ask him what the HELL that was all about. SO we sat there some more and some more then finally they got that scareBus fixed and pushed off the gate so we proceeded on in. The agent knocked I cracked/open and WOOOOSH out went the f/e and f/o before one psgr had time to even get there belongings out of the OHB's and get up to the FWD entry area. The c/a did stay for about half of the deplaning process and said something along the lines of having to make sure they could make there next flight since it was a tight connect they didnt want to get replaced/reassigned because it already had happened to them once before earlier in the month. So out he goes and the rest of our customers and as we were getting our lug.and stuff I told the #2&4 f/a's what had gone one while we waited for our gate. Well it dawned on all four of us like a sitcom that we had better go to OP's and check our seq.(trip)to see what time it showed us "blocking in". Sure enough you got it tah dah it showed the time that the f/e had opened the fwd entry door while we were still out on the ramp w/psgrs waiting for our gate!! one of the f/a's had been an agent prior to becoming a f/a and he knew of a Sabre entry that shows the out/in times,a/c type,orig/dest.,reasons for a delay etc by GATE. So he did his thing and there we had it-the times for the A300(in/out) reason for delay this was coded 'Mech" and the ACTUAL in time for our flight. So we had in good old CRT back and green our seq, reflecting one time and this entry for the gate showing another.How much dif. you ask? A whopppping solid 30 MINUTES! Thats 30 mins of flight pay LOST to the f/a's and yes the pilots seq.'s reflected the same "in" time so I assume they LOST 30 mins as well. However besides the $$$ and the fact pilots make more then f/a's so that 30 mins is apples to oranges what about the hole opening/cracking an ARMED door out on a taxieway and NOT even informing ME,the Purser,who's door it was that I am responsible for durring an evac and an inadvetant slide deployment if that had occ. would have been halled in to the office to try and explain this little minor act of god. Not a word I mean NOTHING. So you ask what did we/I do about it? Did I call magmnt and snitch on a fellow union brother as one is told NEVER to do? Did I call professional standards and report it to both APA & APFA? Well lets put it this way we sure as hell got our 30 mins of $$$.A far a paper trail,there is known so the c/a & his crew were not "turned in" as you would say but I bet when they looked at the seq. when they arr.for there l/o it showed 30mins that they didn't know where from it came.
So the story to this story is, that you can show a "block"time not just by brakes alone nor by a door being open(ed). The man is always watching,in our case his name is Sabre so you better watch out you better not lie better not strike I'll tell YOU why. Because Sabre Clause IS Robert Crandall in disguizzzzze. Yeah babie Thrrrrr.You wanna shag now or NOW bAAbie-🙂
Peace to everyone.
SB
(no animals were harmed in anyway in the writing of this post.)
Picture it MIA c.1996ish.I am based in MIA Int'l(IMA is correct code used for f/a's based in the international operation @ MIA) & I am working a 3 day B727/757 as Purser(@ AA ALL int'l flights have a qualifyed Purser working the #1/lead pos. regardless of a/c type). We had just landed in MIA for the 5pm "bank" so as you know how MIA ops. our gate was ocpd. A A300 dest. LIM had a mech. and "ramp control" would not give us another gate so we had to wait. Well the only thing the cabin crew cared about was getting through customs&imigration and making it to the MIA empl.parking lot intime to get on I-95 so we wouldnt miss rush hour south FLA style,yes we were completing our seq.The c/p crew (727 so how many pilots does a B727 have? hehe no silly not counting the...never mind I'll be nice) however was in the middle of there seq. and were gonna go onto somewhere in the carib or c.a. you know where AA sent the B727 out of MIA. Well OK the juice of this so you can move on.....as the Purser I sat at FWD j/s doorside and the #3 f/a sat asileside.We could hear the chatter from the c/p and the radeo so ya know we knew w/o being told what was up. WELL with out notice,no call no nothing,the c/p door come flying open the f/e(flight engineer-lol) comes out and goes right to the FWD entry door and CRACKS it open!!!!! YES yes the door is still ARMED and we are still in our j/s's (I know hard to believe). The f/e doesn't say a word to me/us just opens the door until either the capt.or f/o says OK that did it and he then closes the door and returns to the c/p and shuts that door. I looked at the #3 and just asked "You just see what I saw?" Oh yes couldnt miss that one for sure. Well nothing was ever said fr. the capt. and to be honest I didn't call him to ask him what the HELL that was all about. SO we sat there some more and some more then finally they got that scareBus fixed and pushed off the gate so we proceeded on in. The agent knocked I cracked/open and WOOOOSH out went the f/e and f/o before one psgr had time to even get there belongings out of the OHB's and get up to the FWD entry area. The c/a did stay for about half of the deplaning process and said something along the lines of having to make sure they could make there next flight since it was a tight connect they didnt want to get replaced/reassigned because it already had happened to them once before earlier in the month. So out he goes and the rest of our customers and as we were getting our lug.and stuff I told the #2&4 f/a's what had gone one while we waited for our gate. Well it dawned on all four of us like a sitcom that we had better go to OP's and check our seq.(trip)to see what time it showed us "blocking in". Sure enough you got it tah dah it showed the time that the f/e had opened the fwd entry door while we were still out on the ramp w/psgrs waiting for our gate!! one of the f/a's had been an agent prior to becoming a f/a and he knew of a Sabre entry that shows the out/in times,a/c type,orig/dest.,reasons for a delay etc by GATE. So he did his thing and there we had it-the times for the A300(in/out) reason for delay this was coded 'Mech" and the ACTUAL in time for our flight. So we had in good old CRT back and green our seq, reflecting one time and this entry for the gate showing another.How much dif. you ask? A whopppping solid 30 MINUTES! Thats 30 mins of flight pay LOST to the f/a's and yes the pilots seq.'s reflected the same "in" time so I assume they LOST 30 mins as well. However besides the $$$ and the fact pilots make more then f/a's so that 30 mins is apples to oranges what about the hole opening/cracking an ARMED door out on a taxieway and NOT even informing ME,the Purser,who's door it was that I am responsible for durring an evac and an inadvetant slide deployment if that had occ. would have been halled in to the office to try and explain this little minor act of god. Not a word I mean NOTHING. So you ask what did we/I do about it? Did I call magmnt and snitch on a fellow union brother as one is told NEVER to do? Did I call professional standards and report it to both APA & APFA? Well lets put it this way we sure as hell got our 30 mins of $$$.A far a paper trail,there is known so the c/a & his crew were not "turned in" as you would say but I bet when they looked at the seq. when they arr.for there l/o it showed 30mins that they didn't know where from it came.
So the story to this story is, that you can show a "block"time not just by brakes alone nor by a door being open(ed). The man is always watching,in our case his name is Sabre so you better watch out you better not lie better not strike I'll tell YOU why. Because Sabre Clause IS Robert Crandall in disguizzzzze. Yeah babie Thrrrrr.You wanna shag now or NOW bAAbie-🙂
Peace to everyone.
SB
(no animals were harmed in anyway in the writing of this post.)
Hopeful
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I don't really care too much about the crews benefitting from the "early brakes off"
issue that is the main topic here. I was actually being sarcastic about the pilot's picking up some extra spending change. I am more concerned with the airline fudging the DOT on time reports. But some here believe it is ok as long as the crew is in command at that point with passengers on. The irony I brought up is that the company silently approves of this action because it makes them look good. So if the pilot and crew get something out of this, why can't the ground crew also benefit?
issue that is the main topic here. I was actually being sarcastic about the pilot's picking up some extra spending change. I am more concerned with the airline fudging the DOT on time reports. But some here believe it is ok as long as the crew is in command at that point with passengers on. The irony I brought up is that the company silently approves of this action because it makes them look good. So if the pilot and crew get something out of this, why can't the ground crew also benefit?
AA80Driver
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Have you ever heard of a paragraph?silverbirdFLL said:How about this little story. You talk about GREEEEED I'll tell ya.
Picture it MIA c.1996ish.I am based in MIA Int'l(IMA is correct code used for f/a's based in the international operation @ MIA) & I am working a 3 day B727/757 as Purser(@ AA ALL int'l flights have a qualifyed Purser working the #1/lead pos. regardless of a/c type). We had just landed in MIA for the 5pm "bank" so as you know how MIA ops. our gate was ocpd. A A300 dest. LIM had a mech. and "ramp control" would not give us another gate so we had to wait. Well the only thing the cabin crew cared about was getting through customs&imigration and making it to the MIA empl.parking lot intime to get on I-95 so we wouldnt miss rush hour south FLA style,yes we were completing our seq.The c/p crew (727 so how many pilots does a B727 have? hehe no silly not counting the...never mind I'll be nice) however was in the middle of there seq. and were gonna go onto somewhere in the carib or c.a. you know where AA sent the B727 out of MIA. Well OK the juice of this so you can move on.....as the Purser I sat at FWD j/s doorside and the #3 f/a sat asileside.We could hear the chatter from the c/p and the radeo so ya know we knew w/o being told what was up. WELL with out notice,no call no nothing,the c/p door come flying open the f/e(flight engineer-lol) comes out and goes right to the FWD entry door and CRACKS it open!!!!! YES yes the door is still ARMED and we are still in our j/s's (I know hard to believe). The f/e doesn't say a word to me/us just opens the door until either the capt.or f/o says OK that did it and he then closes the door and returns to the c/p and shuts that door. I looked at the #3 and just asked "You just see what I saw?" Oh yes couldnt miss that one for sure. Well nothing was ever said fr. the capt. and to be honest I didn't call him to ask him what the HELL that was all about. SO we sat there some more and some more then finally they got that scareBus fixed and pushed off the gate so we proceeded on in. The agent knocked I cracked/open and WOOOOSH out went the f/e and f/o before one psgr had time to even get there belongings out of the OHB's and get up to the FWD entry area. The c/a did stay for about half of the deplaning process and said something along the lines of having to make sure they could make there next flight since it was a tight connect they didnt want to get replaced/reassigned because it already had happened to them once before earlier in the month. So out he goes and the rest of our customers and as we were getting our lug.and stuff I told the #2&4 f/a's what had gone one while we waited for our gate. Well it dawned on all four of us like a sitcom that we had better go to OP's and check our seq.(trip)to see what time it showed us "blocking in". Sure enough you got it tah dah it showed the time that the f/e had opened the fwd entry door while we were still out on the ramp w/psgrs waiting for our gate!! one of the f/a's had been an agent prior to becoming a f/a and he knew of a Sabre entry that shows the out/in times,a/c type,orig/dest.,reasons for a delay etc by GATE. So he did his thing and there we had it-the times for the A300(in/out) reason for delay this was coded 'Mech" and the ACTUAL in time for our flight. So we had in good old CRT back and green our seq, reflecting one time and this entry for the gate showing another.How much dif. you ask? A whopppping solid 30 MINUTES! Thats 30 mins of flight pay LOST to the f/a's and yes the pilots seq.'s reflected the same "in" time so I assume they LOST 30 mins as well. However besides the $$$ and the fact pilots make more then f/a's so that 30 mins is apples to oranges what about the hole opening/cracking an ARMED door out on a taxieway and NOT even informing ME,the Purser,who's door it was that I am responsible for durring an evac and an inadvetant slide deployment if that had occ. would have been halled in to the office to try and explain this little minor act of god. Not a word I mean NOTHING. So you ask what did we/I do about it? Did I call magmnt and snitch on a fellow union brother as one is told NEVER to do? Did I call professional standards and report it to both APA & APFA? Well lets put it this way we sure as hell got our 30 mins of $$$.A far a paper trail,there is known so the c/a & his crew were not "turned in" as you would say but I bet when they looked at the seq. when they arr.for there l/o it showed 30mins that they didn't know where from it came.
So the story to this story is, that you can show a "block"time not just by brakes alone nor by a door being open(ed). The man is always watching,in our case his name is Sabre so you better watch out you better not lie better not strike I'll tell YOU why. Because Sabre Clause IS Robert Crandall in disguizzzzze. Yeah babie Thrrrrr.You wanna shag now or NOW bAAbie-🙂
Peace to everyone.
SB
(no animals were harmed in anyway in the writing of this post.)
Your post reveals a complete breakdown of CRM by this crew. Shouldn't have happened.
silverbirdFLL
Member
"Have you ever heard of a paragraph?
Your post reveals a complete breakdown of CRM by this crew. Shouldn't have happened"
Paragraph? Paragraph?
Dude I was born a yankee raised in the South(not Texas south neither) so I learned from my schooling that if your gonna tell it tell it AWLLL. I can't spell but my typing is getting better.
Coke machine in the sky I think NOT-🙂
HoHo
PeAAce
SB
Your post reveals a complete breakdown of CRM by this crew. Shouldn't have happened"
Paragraph? Paragraph?
Dude I was born a yankee raised in the South(not Texas south neither) so I learned from my schooling that if your gonna tell it tell it AWLLL. I can't spell but my typing is getting better.
Coke machine in the sky I think NOT-🙂
HoHo
PeAAce
SB
NewHampshire Black Bears
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OK you APA folks(I know a lot of you read/post on this board).
I'm still waiting to hear from you about "EARLY BRAKE RELEASE", that "enable's" AA to report PHONEY "on time" numbers to the DOT, and "disable's" a lot of your fellow union brothers from useing("HONESTLY") about the only tool available, to make local management accountable to HDQ !!!!!!!!!
Respond please.
NH/BB's
I'm still waiting to hear from you about "EARLY BRAKE RELEASE", that "enable's" AA to report PHONEY "on time" numbers to the DOT, and "disable's" a lot of your fellow union brothers from useing("HONESTLY") about the only tool available, to make local management accountable to HDQ !!!!!!!!!
Respond please.
NH/BB's
NewHampshire Black Bears
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Garfield1966;
Just curious garfield, what do you think about "my above" post ???????
NH/BB's
Just curious garfield, what do you think about "my above" post ???????
NH/BB's
http://www.bts.gov/oai/airline_ontime_performance/
http://www.bts.gov/help/aviation.html#q3
Bears, On time performance is measued by the D.O.T. at 31 airports. This is an "Arrival" statistic. How can the company falsify something that isn't even required to be reported?
http://www.bts.gov/help/aviation.html#q3
Bears, On time performance is measued by the D.O.T. at 31 airports. This is an "Arrival" statistic. How can the company falsify something that isn't even required to be reported?
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