DL rebrands, alters onboard services

[N628AU]

including the ULCCs in the US whose fares DL is matching.

It should also be interesting if these fares are even worth chasing in the long run. The airline industry history is littered with decisions rescinded down the road that were flawed to begin with. If traffic is so strong why even chase this group? One thing in addition to the low fares and fees are known for is the insane level of complaints they deal with. Spirit and Frontier lead the industry in complaints because they chase the infrequent traveller drawn to the fare and those carriers don't really care about it. In fact I think BBB at Spirit is proud of the complaint level. Once these start to affect the operation as a whole and the bread and butter customer DL has, how fast will they pull the plug on those fares?

 

[WorldTraveler]

there will always be some carriers that believe some passengers aren't worth pursuing.

The transcon markets are a great example. AA and UA have both taken a premium niche strategy, saying that some passengers are not worth pursuing.

the result? even with AA's relatively young adoption of that strategy, AA and UA both have lost total transcon revenue and have been displaced by other carriers that carry more share.

if it was possible to actually ignore certain carriers and passengers would too, then such a strategy would work.

but it doesn't work.

When you don't aggressively pursue every passenger, you allow other carriers to take bigger and bigger pieces of your business.

there is a discussion on the WN forum about why Spirit is running into headwinds because of increased competition. This might be exactly the time when DL needs to pushback and slow their growth at least in key DL markets.

and the reason why those fares affect other customers at a carrier is because the carrier has failed to properly segregate passengers who use them.

DL and other carriers have had non-refundable, non-changeable fares before, no advance seat assignment, and someone is always last to board.

the fares were tested. If was DLs job to get the wrinkles out. Let's see if they did.

 

[eolesen]

Remember when WT tried to tell us there was no trip-in-vain rule at DL?...

Same thing here. Published policy is no changes, no standby, no seat.

Reality might change once you hit the airport.
 

the GO has policies for the whole company... I have seen them work and I have seen them inconsistently applied and I have seen them applied to the letter with no flexibility.

you can't blame the GO if individual cities don't follow the procedures that have been given to them by the GO to manage baggage - and that does include saying NO.

Seems to me you treat policy as scripture, i.e. it's infallable.

I've seen plenty of policies that were tested which wind up being entirely impractical to be delivered consistently.

It most definitely starts in the GO -- HDQ folks tend to lose touch with what happens in the field, especially if you're a company that tends to hire and promote people into those HDQ positions who've only worked in the adjacent mother-hub, and have little to no idea what happens in a station the size of Kev's.

I'd be surprised if Economy Minus sticks around in its proposed form for more than a year.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and nowhere have I said that DL wouldn't grant exceptions on the rules of the economy basic fare... but the expectation has got to be that they won't.

IF DL decides to pull Economy basic, it will be because it has accomplished what it is intended to do which is to pull back customers that are leaving for ULCCs.

what can be measured in a year is how successful DL has been in slowing the growth of competitors in its markets.
With AA's RASM performance in the last month, someone is eroding AA's revenue generating capability.... maybe it's Latin America, maybe its WN at DAL, maybe its DL/VS at LHR - but there is some very real reason why AA's RASM performance has very rapidly and dramatically fallen.

 

[eolesen]

IF DL decides to pull Economy basic, it will be because it has accomplished what it is intended to do which is to pull back customers that are leaving for ULCCs.

That's certainly one outcome, but I wouldn't be quite so binary about the reasons...

Perhaps they'll pull it because nobody matched?

Or, maybe they'll pull it because it didn't produce the expected results?

What if they pull it because customers start leaving DL for other carriers?...

With AA's RASM performance in the last month, someone is eroding AA's revenue generating capability.... maybe it's Latin America, maybe its WN at DAL, maybe its DL/VS at LHR - but there is some very real reason why AA's RASM performance has very rapidly and dramatically fallen.

And when all else fails, make the argument about AA.

 

[WorldTraveler]

there is no deflecting.

AA is losing revenue to someone or for some reason.

You want to attack DL for doing something to prevent that erosion or threat of it in DL's markets. Where is AA's revenue leakage and what are they doing about it? The reason why DL has been as successful against LCCs in its market is because DL doesn't wait until the damage is done before acting.

Yes, it is possible that the whole project could fail... but DL tested the program and it was discussed here. DL has a pretty good idea of what they are getting into. If it turns out completely different from what was presented, then you'd have a point. So far, there is no evidence that has occurred or will occur.

 

[eolesen]

I'm not attacking DL - I just think it's a move that will be confusing to customers and difficult to implement.

Sorry if that's too difficult for you to understand.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and if DL's customers are confused, it will be DL's problem to figure it out, not mine and not yours.

and as much as you can't stand to admit it, DL made the decision after its own markets tests.

they know what they are getting into.

 

[eolesen]

I can admit it without question, Skippy.

Just don't forget that New Coke was market tested, too.

 

[topDawg]

Remember when WT tried to tell us there was no trip-in-vain rule at DL?...

Same thing here. Published policy is no changes, no standby, no seat.

Reality might change once you hit the airport.
 

Seems to me you treat policy as scripture, i.e. it's infallable.

I've seen plenty of policies that were tested which wind up being entirely impractical to be delivered consistently.

It most definitely starts in the GO -- HDQ folks tend to lose touch with what happens in the field, especially if you're a company that tends to hire and promote people into those HDQ positions who've only worked in the adjacent mother-hub, and have little to no idea what happens in a station the size of Kev's.

I'd be surprised if Economy Minus sticks around in its proposed form for more than a year.

E gets it. 
 

and nowhere have I said that DL wouldn't grant exceptions on the rules of the economy basic fare... but the expectation has got to be that they won't.

IF DL decides to pull Economy basic, it will be because it has accomplished what it is intended to do which is to pull back customers that are leaving for ULCCs.

what can be measured in a year is how successful DL has been in slowing the growth of competitors in its markets.
With AA's RASM performance in the last month, someone is eroding AA's revenue generating capability.... maybe it's Latin America, maybe its WN at DAL, maybe its DL/VS at LHR - but there is some very real reason why AA's RASM performance has very rapidly and dramatically fallen.

or it was a complete failure? wouldn't be the first time..... 
 

there is no deflecting.

AA is losing revenue to someone or for some reason.

You want to attack DL for doing something to prevent that erosion or threat of it in DL's markets. Where is AA's revenue leakage and what are they doing about it? The reason why DL has been as successful against LCCs in its market is because DL doesn't wait until the damage is done before acting.

Yes, it is possible that the whole project could fail... but DL tested the program and it was discussed here. DL has a pretty good idea of what they are getting into. If it turns out completely different from what was presented, then you'd have a point. So far, there is no evidence that has occurred or will occur.

yes your deflecting and doing so hard. 
 

I can admit it without question, Skippy.

Just don't forget that New Coke was market tested, too.

with "great" results too...... 

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, we get that since E has been subjected to my criticisms of AA's mgmt. policies for how many years, he is now going to jump on every DL initiative regardless of whether it makes any sense to do so or not.

and we have a DL mechanic who is perpetually mad at DL for depriving him of airframe overhauls.

so, yeah, DL could screw it up but they know a whole lot more about the subject than a DL ramper and mechanic who have never worked DL passenger service or an ex-AA agent who hasn't worked in frontline customer service in decades and not at DL.

and you know what? given that DL's record of revenue generation is heads and shoulders above the rest of the US industry, I'm pretty sure they will figure it out.

 

[topDawg]

yes, we get that since E has been subjected to my criticisms of AA's mgmt. policies for how many years, he is now going to jump on every DL initiative regardless of whether it makes any sense to do so or not.

and we have a DL mechanic who is perpetually mad at DL for depriving him of airframe overhauls.

so, yeah, DL could screw it up but they know a whole lot more about the subject than a DL ramper and mechanic who have never worked DL passenger service or an ex-AA agent who hasn't worked in frontline customer service in decades and not at DL.

and you know what? given that DL's record of revenue generation is heads and shoulders above the rest of the US industry, I'm pretty sure they will figure it out.

wow you are just bitter. 
 
but I'll play along, how about the has been who constantly talks crap to everyone else and acts like he knows every little thing about Delta? 
 
glass house. 

 

[eolesen]

He's both bitter and frustrated.

No, I haven't worked as an hourly agent in over 20 years, but that by no means should be misinterpreted as not having been directly involved with reviewing, evaluating, or implementing customer service policies during that timeframe. And I've done it with over two dozen airlines, many of them world class leaders. One of those just happened to be DL, as recently as six months ago.

Clearly, as a paying customer, I've had plenty of experience with customer service policies and the impact of bad decision making or poor training...

But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good case of martyrdom and self-importance.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so, it's ok for you to know what is going on at DL but me, who actually performed the gate agent function and implemented policies that affected it well within the last decade, and I too have been involved in customer service consulting are supposed to be unable to make a logical conclusion - all the while a DL ramper and a DL mechanic plus you are here to tell us that DL has created a program that is not customer focused?

I don't think so.

there is no martyrdom involved in pointing out your usual complete hypocrisy and your own refusal to acknowledge that DL has a very long string of revenue wins in the industry that started before DL filed for BK and have only accelerated.

I'm also going to go out on a not so long limb and say that when DL's investor's conference starts in a few hours, DL will once again highlight how it is taking steps to create revenue and insure its competitiveness in the marketplace that other carriers are simply not able to replicate. If it were, we wouldn't be witnessing yet another quarter where DL is growing its capacity as fast or faster than any other US airline and also pushing RASM to the highest levels the industry is producing.

Does the new fare structure and cabin segmentation create more complexity than existed and more than other carriers have? absolutely. but the fact that DL has managed a very complex operation already and has produced reliability and operational performance that is also at the top of the industry also highlights that DL is capable of going far beyond overcoming consultant talking points which any 3rd quarter could see are risks in doing anything behind sitting on your hands.

DL recognizes the need to continue to create revenue, compete at all levels of the customer and competitive set, and maintain its top of the class operational and revenue performance.

As with dozens of other topics about which you have weighed on, this will likely go down as yet one more where you have been off the charts wrong and where DL has managed to do what you have said they couldn't or might not.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

there is no martyrdom involved in pointing out your usual complete hypocrisy and your own refusal to acknowledge that DL has a very long string of revenue wins in the industry that started before DL filed for BK and have only accelerated.


As with dozens of other topics about which you have weighed on, this will likely go down as yet one more where you have been off the charts wrong and where DL has managed to do what you have said they couldn't or might not.

 
It's hilarious watching you spin and blindly defend every single decision/action DL makes.  On every ailine forum and thread to boot.  How much Kool-aiDL have you consumed?
 
1.  I got to ask:  if DL has such a long string of "revenue wins" (somebody should keep a track of WT-isms),  then why did they file for chapter 11 reorganization?
 
2.  Do you really want to start to keep a tally of how many times certain posters have been proven to be wrong?  How about lying?  Or fabricating data?  Do you really want to go down that road?