Delta Upgrades In-flight Experience for International Coach Customers

[Bear96]

How many years do you estimate DL's bankruptcy will last?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Delta has said they expect to exit bankruptcy in the 2nd quarter of 2007 which would make their bankruptcy process about a year and a half shorter than UA's.

Maintaining this timeline is why DL, NW, as well as AA are pushing Congress to settle this pension reform issue. Those of you at AA should not get too comfortable with your pensions if Congress doesn't act and AA is forced to catch up its funding for its pensions at the same time that DL and NW are forced to dump their pensions because of Congress' inability to act. Even though the industry is very competitive, DL and NW do not want to dump their pensions even though it would provide a competitive edge over AA and CO, but esp. AA with its senior workforce.

Congress' failure to pass pension reform legislation hurts everyone. If you haven't contacted your congress person asking them to support pension reform, you should. There are still 4 airlines with pensions that could be at risk if Congress fails to act.

 

[Bear96]

Delta has said they expect to exit bankruptcy in the 2nd quarter of 2007 which would make their bankruptcy process about a year and a half shorter than UA's.

Hmmm . . . entered BK in 2005, exit in 2007 . . . 2005, 2006, 2007 . . . that's like three years! My how time flies!

Anhyoo. Does this "they expect" equal "real life?" Didn't they just ask for something called an "extension?" Was that part of the "they expect" plan?

What was their original "expectation" for exiting? When they filed LAST YEAR, what were they saying the exit date would be?

Finally, may we hold you to the 2Q07 exit time frame? (And lets even let bygones be bygones, and pretend that this was the original planned exit date.) If they don't exit then, will you admit -- for the first time -- that there is a real problem in DL-land?

 

[WorldTraveler]

thank you for confirming your inability to grasp the situation, bear. apparently you flunked out of kindergarten and never went back to school. and by your logic, UA was in bankruptcy 4 years.

 

[FA Mikey]

Back to the original topic of printed menus, free drinks, and eye shades in coach. All seems trivial and not worth the expense. What customer would choose DL over another carier because of a free drink, eye shade and a menu to tell you about the choice in dinner they ran out of? Is that the premium customer they are taking from AA/UA?

 

[Fly]

thank you for confirming your inability to grasp the situation, bear. apparently you flunked out of kindergarten and never went back to school. and by your logic, UA was in bankruptcy 4 years.

No, must have been YOU who flunked math. United in bankruptcy 2003, 2004, 2005 and the months of December 2002, January 2006. That would be 3 years, 2 months.

 

[Ch. 12]

No, must have been YOU who flunked math. United in bankruptcy 2003, 2004, 2005 and the months of December 2002, January 2006. That would be 3 years, 2 months.

Fly-

I think WT was being facetious. Bear noted that DL will have been in BK for three years b/c he/she is counting one Q in 2005 and two in 2007 as 8 full quarters (two years) and adding in the full year of 2006 when, in fact, that would be 1 year, 9 months. WT wasn't trying to really state that UA was in BK for 5 years, but if Bear were to do the math for UA, he/she would say that UA was in BK for 6 years b/c it touched every year from 2002 through 2006 (even though only one month of 02 and 06.) You and I know that UA was 3yrs, 2mos and DL aims for 1 year 9 mos.

I'm NOT here to say who has been in BK too little or too long b/c every situation has it's own circumstances and needs but I'm just pointing out why it appears that WT said 5 years. Again...I couldn't care how long UA or DL was/is in b/c it's all what you do with it and where you go afterwards. Jury is still out on US/HP and UA. IMHO, CO is the only true successful navigator of a fairly recent BK as they have been self-sustaining for quite a while now. Time will tell for all of the recent filings. But I digress... B)

 

[hp_fa]

IMHO, CO is the only true successful navigator of a fairly recent BK as they have been self-sustaining for quite a while now. Time will tell for all of the recent filings. But I digress... B)

How about the pre-merger HP, which filed in 1991?

 

[Ch. 12]

How about the pre-merger HP, which filed in 1991?

That was successful, pre-merger. The current status is up in the air, though...but aside from some little integration issues, it isn't as bad of a merger as others in recent times (AA/TW). Seeing HP's status prior to their BK in '91, I would say they were VERY successful in restructuring. I guess in my statement above I was merely thinking of the current state of carriers with fairly recent BKs. HP/US's current state is still a question mark due to the added debt and morale issues that HP attained through the merger. As always...time will tell.

 

[nbmcg01]

That was successful, pre-merger. The current status is up in the air, though...but aside from some little integration issues, it isn't as bad of a merger as others in recent times (AA/TW). Seeing HP's status prior to their BK in '91, I would say they were VERY successful in restructuring. I guess in my statement above I was merely thinking of the current state of carriers with fairly recent BKs. HP/US's current state is still a question mark due to the added debt and morale issues that HP attained through the merger. As always...time will tell.

Gee, I wish they would "borrow" some of that upgrade money and reimburse the vet bills I have had to pay due to their negligence.

On a positive note, the ground personnel in ROA are wonderful! They were all very polite and seemed to really enjoy their jobs.

 

[flyhigh]

Mikey,

It's not as much about stealing premium from UA/AA. THe product enhancements are meant more to be like Target is to Wal-Mart. Better than Southwest, but not AA/UA. In evaluating the product offering, the target customer is more of the mid-range customer with a focus on price conscious people who buy quality...thus Target like.

 

[Ch. 12]

Mikey,

It's not as much about stealing premium from UA/AA. THe product enhancements are meant more to be like Target is to Wal-Mart. Better than Southwest, but not AA/UA. In evaluating the product offering, the target customer is more of the mid-range customer with a focus on price conscious people who buy quality...thus Target like.

What is the superior coach product that AA/UA offers across the pond? It must be fine china, right? I'll tell you that when looking at the long haul domestic, AA/UA are the Wal-mart...or maybe Big Lots. I have taken AA, UA, and DL on long (7+ hour flights) to HNL. On AA/UA, I was served no meal (UA flight was 9+ hours from ORD) and DL serves a meal. From the very basics of amenities, I'd say that you are dead wrong about the offerings...DL was superior, by far. I cannot speak for AA across the pond but I have taken both UA and DL and the service in coach has been comparable. I felt in no way that UA had superior service and same goes for DL. Same meals, entertainment, pillows and blankets. So...if DL is upgrading their product, wouldn't that mean that they will be serving a superior product? Please limit responses to objective measures and not a "my friends in sales tell me this or that". My measures seem to be pretty quantifiable and I'm cheerleading in no way...just observing.

 

[FA Mikey]

I agree, but another poster here believes that Delta's build up is signaling the end of AA/UA in NY. Many of the previous post's are to dispel that myth

 

[IORFA]

I predict that these new ammenities won't last too long. No other US based airline will copy them and they will just end up wasting the money. I still hear on rare occasions how European carriers don't charge for alcohol, like I didn't know, but that hasn't stopped our flights going out full!!! While these amenities are nice, the vast majority aren't going to choose Delta because of it. Nor are they going to pay more for it either. Look what happened when we, AA, offered the most sought after ammenity, MRTC. People loved it, but were not about to pay more for it. JMHO.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and what was the problem w/ MRTC? It left AA very uncompetitive in its ability to generate comparable amounts of revenue as other airlines that had more industry average number of seats on the plane. The difference amount to as much as 10% of the capacity of an aircraft - a pretty substantial disadvantage.

The cost to DL for these amenities is negligible. They may or may not last but in some customers minds, DL will be perceived as stepping away from the crowd and closer to some of the int'l carriers that are perceived as having a better product. Is any of this going to dramatically reshape the industry? Absolutely not. What will make a difference is whether carriers have flights in markets that customers want to fly at fares that customers are willing to pay. The rest of the stuff is icing on the cake and can tip the balance if all other things are equal but they still are relatively insignificant.

It is because DL is adding flights to key worldwide markets that AA's position in NYC is being challenged, not whether DL provides ear plugs to drown out crying babies or whether the customer brings their own (as I do).