DL Holds Key

[DLFlyer31]

Obviously, your knowledge of pre deregulation era US aviation law is limited. Further, it appears that limited range extends to your insight on Pan Am's competitors..i.e. Northwest Airlines, TWA, Braniff, AOA.

"grandiose"?
(That seems an understatement..)

Pan Am owned its famous New York Building at 200 Park Avenue (built as the largest office building in the world), the Inter-Continental Hotel chain, Pan Am World Services (that conducted launches at Cape Canaveral), the insurance company, a 50 percent stake in Falcon Jet (the private executive jet builder), the Atlantic Division, the Pacific Division, the Latin American Division, Pan Africa, the Internal German Services (Pan Am was the only U.S. airline to fly the IGS with Lufthansa between a divided East and West Germany during the existence of the Berlin Wall), and later the East Coast Shuttle (flown between New York-Boston-and Washington's "power corridor"), Pan Am Express (the commuter airline feeder).

I think it is more than qualified at being referred to as "Grand".

I'm very familiar with pre-dereg law and Pan Am could have had domestic services if they had really aggressively gone after it. Pan Am just wasn't interested (until it was too late) because they wanted the international market.

While Pan Am had quite a list of products, many of them actually distracted the company from its primary mission. Taking your focus off your core business is usually a mistake. I guess that's one thing you can credit Pan Am for teaching the other airlines.

Delta and United don't owe anything to Pan Am for their existence. Long before Pan Am died, UA and DL were on their way up. Even if Pan Am was alive today, UA and DL would also exist and have extensive international route structures. Keep in mind that DL dumped most of the routes that Pan Am flew as most were losers. DL's strongest and largest international hub is ATL which would still exist even with Pan Am.

 

[JAMAKE1]

NBNW:

I've never bragged about UA and nor was I doing so. I was merely pointing out what many former Pan Am F/A's have echoed to me about the operational differences between PA and UA after Pac-Day. I stand by my comments that you paint a rather rosy picture of Pan Am and your tone IS indeed, miserable. I'll leave it at that.

FYI, since your memory escapes you with regard to the personal IM I received from you, I've posted it below.

Sorry
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Sorry, Dec 15 2007, 04:14 AM


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I am sorry for being so snappy! It was mean. smile.gif


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[North by Northwest]

" G R A N D I O S E "

I guess dinosaurs could have also been considered grandiose, but since they couldn't adapt to their changing environment they went extinct; they lost to a bunch to a new furry creatures called mammals. All we have left of dinosaurs are fossils, you draw the conclusion!

This might make you feel better, have a look:

Nostalgia

Best of Luck

Dom

Loved it!

Grazie per tutti, e molto gentile!
(dinasours never contributed to the continuation of the present)

Pan Am expertise will live until the last Pan Am'er dies. Undisputed. We weren't perfect, but...we were the best available.

"The World's Most Experienced Airline". (that you can NEVER change!)

"EASTERN" ...will always be, "The Wings of Man" (brilliant slogan) ..........Don't even get me started about my fav. airline in the world growing up....... PSA!

 

[North by Northwest]

NBNW:

I've never bragged about UA and nor was I doing so. I was merely pointing out what many former Pan Am F/A's have echoed to me about the operational differences between PA and UA after Pac-Day. I stand by my comments that you paint a rather rosy picture of Pan Am and your tone IS indeed, miserable. I'll leave it at that.

FYI, since your memory escapes you with regard to the personal IM I received from you, I've posted it below.

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Sorry, Dec 15 2007, 04:14 AM


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Group: Registered Member
Posts: 792
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Joined: 8-January 04




I am sorry for being so snappy! It was mean. smile.gif


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YES... you did as in "
"Furthermore, your contention that Pan Am operated "state-of-the-art" aircraft is perhaps partially accurate at best, at a time when the airline took delivery of brand new 747's, which was during the early 1970's. I fly with many former Pan Amer's who came over to United at Pac Day in 1986. I have heard from many of them that United's international fleet was in far better shape and that United provided better service tools than Pan Am provided them at the time. Their words. Not mine. The reality is, is that by the mid 1980's Pan Am was well on its way into financial descent and its operations and aircraft fleet had started to reflect that decline."

As for the act of kindness...of my IM, that I don't remember. You will NEVER have to worry about that again.(I hope that clears up any weakness that you may have hoped for by playing that gesture of humility.) I generally love apologizing...when appropriate, it is a sign of strength and maturity.(clearly, not befitting my mistake as it pertains to you).

What you need to do is get over your petty Ual ego. You can NEVER change the past. Learn it, own it, get over it.

 

[JAMAKE1]

I'm not a cheerleader for United. I am refuting your earlier comments about Pan Am since you claim that they remain unrivaled. I disagree. I believe that you have glorified Pan Am in a way that reflects an inaccurate picture of the company in a post-deregulation era.

Furthermore, there is nothing in your postings that reflect dignity or maturity. To be quite honest, you sound like a bitter, jaded queen. Your tone is one of arrogance and condescension and you tend to make points that are irrelevant to the discussion at hand (like your advanced degrees, your Pan Am employment, or your Italian fluency). Furthermore, you become awfully high-strung and attack anyone whose position may differ from yours. Perhaps you should look in the mirror. At the end of the day, you're serving Cokes at 35,000 feet like everybody else, so your snippy snobbery really is not warranted.

Since you like directness, let me be direct: Your behavior is c...pissy!

 

[North by Northwest]

I'm not a cheerleader for United. I am refuting your earlier comments about Pan Am since you claim that they remain unrivaled. I disagree. I believe that you have glorified Pan Am in a way that reflects an inaccurate picture of the company in a post-deregulation era.

Furthermore, there is nothing in your postings that reflect dignity or maturity. To be quite honest, you sound like a bitter, jaded queen. Your tone is one of arrogance and condescension and you tend to make points that are irrelevant to the discussion at hand (like your advanced degrees, your Pan Am employment, or your Italian fluency). Furthermore, you become awfully high-strung and attack anyone whose position may differ from yours. Perhaps you should look in the mirror. At the end of the day, you're serving Cokes at 35,000 feet like everybody else, so your snippy snobbery really is not warranted.

Since you like directness, let me be direct: Your behavior is c...pissy!

Pretenders usually...dream of being royalty (hince the self description " Queen"). My charmed life leaves nothing for me to be "bitter" about. That is a term used by desperate faux royalty...when they are feeling for straws. Pan Am...left me VERY VERY happy, with an extremely comfortable life. I often worry about those in the sewer whom are left to work in jobs they disparage.

I love my part time job...being on call to save a life, while I serve a "coke" @35,000 ft. I am sorry that you have such low self esteem. Try EAP...or did Ual send that to the government to?

My "advance" degree (that Pan Am allowed me to acquire) supports me and my wonderful contributions to the world. I do look in the mirror, and I thank GOD for my fantastic experiences...allowed me by the icon of aviation history. I wouldn't trade a year of it for 20 of your sad...domestic endeavor. (sorry... 2 flight "international")

"Your behavior is c...pissy!" May I ask a favor? Can you translate into English, Italian, or French? I am sorry, I don't speak illiterate gutter.

 

[North by Northwest]

damn coke spilled...so much for dreaming of yesteryear.

 

[North by Northwest]

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

At (age) 62 now, as a younger person, I always remembered...PAA + TWA,........then Everyone ELSE !

 

[NYCDelta]

Maybe we could start a Pan Am board for those who like to live in the past? I mean, honestly, the way you go on! I have much respect for all of the DEFUNCT airlines that have come before us. But, really-can we please just let it go? I fly with Pan Am F/A's all the time out of NYC who have wonderful stories of how it used to be. But, they all agree that after the late 70's, and especially throughout the 80's, Pan Am was NOT great. They talk about rats in the JFK FA lounge, filthy airplanes with duct tape, and very demoralized employees. That's the reality.
I love Delta. But the Delta I work for now, is not the same company that won customer service awards for 17 years straight with their small, southern airline hospitality. The job allowed me to pursue my nursing degree-and I now enjoy both professions. But, PLEASE come back to reality.
Adesso, parliamo inglese, per favore, siamo in America!

 

[yoyodyne]

Loved it!

Grazie per tutti, e molto gentile!
(dinasours never contributed to the continuation of the present)

Pan Am expertise will live until the last Pan Am'er dies. Undisputed. We weren't perfect, but...we were the best available.

"The World's Most Experienced Airline". (that you can NEVER change!)

"EASTERN" ...will always be, "The Wings of Man" (brilliant slogan) ..........Don't even get me started about my fav. airline in the world growing up....... PSA!

I'm glad you liked it, I like it to, however, I wouldn't mind not seeing DL on the slide show.

And yes, dinosaurs did contribute to the continuation of the present, we see them flying and chirping everyday! (and there are some that are still in there original form, like some crocodiles and sharks).

But I do agree with you, it was those multiple trips I took on Eastern Air Lines - L1011 "Whisperliner" as a small kid that have me working here now. And yes, I do think, if I had the chance to go back in time, I would like to just once, fly across the pond on PanAm!


Dom

 

[North by Northwest]

Maybe we could start a Pan Am board for those who like to live in the past? I mean, honestly, the way you go on! I have much respect for all of the DEFUNCT airlines that have come before us. But, really-can we please just let it go? I fly with Pan Am F/A's all the time out of NYC who have wonderful stories of how it used to be. But, they all agree that after the late 70's, and especially throughout the 80's, Pan Am was NOT great. They talk about rats in the JFK FA lounge, filthy airplanes with duct tape, and very demoralized employees. That's the reality.
I love Delta. But the Delta I work for now, is not the same company that won customer service awards for 17 years straight with their small, southern airline hospitality. The job allowed me to pursue my nursing degree-and I now enjoy both professions. But, PLEASE come back to reality.
Adesso, parliamo inglese, per favore, siamo in America!

That's a good idea. Then you can start with Delta folks whom dream of Delta becoming "Pan Am". (as in this thread)

I assure you, I live in the here and now. I just like to jar people back to reality when they like to pretend they are something they are not...and probably never will be. So, do yourself a favor, start your plea for reality with your Delta family, those that dream of being "Pan Am".

Capito? FYI...either your inglese is an issue or you missed 99% of my inglese with your silly "day trip" Italian remark.

 

[NYCDelta]

That's a good idea. Then you can start with Delta folks whom dream of Delta becoming "Pan Am". (as in this thread)

I assure you, I live in the here and now. I just like to jar people back to reality when they like to pretend they are something they are not...and probably never will be. So, do yourself a favor, start your plea for reality with your Delta family, those that dream of being "Pan Am".

Capito? FYI...either your inglese is an issue or you missed 99% of my inglese with your silly "day trip" Italian remark.

I can assure you, neither I nor anyone I know at Delta, dreams of becoming Pan Am.

 

[luv2fly]

That's a good idea. Then you can start with Delta folks whom dream of Delta becoming "Pan Am". (as in this thread)

I assure you, I live in the here and now. I just like to jar people back to reality when they like to pretend they are something they are not...and probably never will be. So, do yourself a favor, start your plea for reality with your Delta family, those that dream of being "Pan Am".

Capito? FYI...either your inglese is an issue or you missed 99% of my inglese with your silly "day trip" Italian remark.

How about keeping this thread on topic? You want a Pan Am discussion? That's ok. Take it somewhere else.

 

[North by Northwest]

DL has a unique property no one else has, Atlanta. JFK, CVG and other Delta strength's can be copied. DL & UA would make the most sense for DL's lack of Asia and UA's weakness in Europe and South America. This would bring together all the parts of PAN AM sold off over the years with a huge domestic system in Chicago and international gateways at JFK, LAX and SFO.

I just commented on the statement above. Pan Am's place in history ain't going nowhere. And I can assure you Ms. Delta, this is one Pan Am'er who'ed prefer worrying about rats in a crew room vs. engines falling off and slicing up paxs as it cuts through the airplane. That's the reality.

You can dream of recreating Pan Am, but those are big shoes to fill. We all know it was a struggle at the end...of 64 years at the TOP. That's "reality".

Now back on topic:

Delta may dream of being in the driver's seat...but I can assure you, Northwest employees are not in the weaken state Pan Am employees were...when they were cheated out of seniority. In fact, most here cringe at any kind of merger. But you can take it to the bank that if we are involved with one, it will be one of equals. Northwest Unions have never cheated any merged employee out of one day of seniority.

If there is any US airline flying today anywhere near the scope of Pan Am it is United, minus Africa/Eastern Europe.