DL expands SEA further with SEA-SFO flights

[eolesen]

Why don't you tell us why it's OK for Delta to strong-arm its partners, and then feign outrage when they don't cave to the pressure?

 

[Kev3188]

I'm trying to figure what PDX has to do with anything. can you help us out? If DL doesn't rely on AS to feed it and uses its NRT hub, what does it have to do with the AS discussion.

maybe there is some connection and if there is, I'm more than happy to hear it.

Sometimes I forget that your interest isn't in actual discussion and context, but rather in some bizarre quest to dominate this little corner of the web.

DL might not use AS for INt'l feed, but you mentioned NW at SEA doing so, and I simply added on to that noting that the relationship was more extensive than just one station.

I was actually adding on to a point you had made. My mistake.

Carry on.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are free to participate in the discussion as well as I am ... .I'm not dominating anything any more than you or E are.  
 
It's fine that you want to throw PDX in - I just missed the connection... if you can show us, your input is valid. 
 
E,
perhaps DL isn't in the position where it needs to have partnerships that don't deliver on a fair basis for DL or are actually detrimental to DL.
 
DL is actually in a pretty strong position if it can start thinning its partnerships down to the most valuable and in letting others know that they offer nothing to DL and benefits will be cut. 
 
We are talking about commercial partnerships that are based on economic interests... not a lifelong commitment to love and fidelity.

 

[eolesen]

Sometimes I forget that your interest isn't in actual discussion and context, but rather in some bizarre quest to dominate this little corner of the web.

DL is actually in a pretty strong position if it can start thinning its partnerships down to the most valuable and in letting others know that they offer nothing to DL and benefits will be cut.

Yes, because isolationism has worked out so well historically...

 

[WorldTraveler]

except that DL is hardly isolationist.  They just have partners that work well for them.
 
The DL/AF/KL relationship is one of the largest and most successful airline partnerships in the world. 
 
here is a fairly accurate article on the AS-DL situation... however they only touch on that there is a contract between AS and DL which makes walking away from the contract difficult.
 
AS' executives also admit that AS' financial results will suffer as a result of DL's buildup at SEA> 
 
 
http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/alaska-and-deltas-relationship-unravels-deciding-when-a-partnership-is-over-is-a-big-call-159783

 

[eolesen]

In other words, DL is taking advantage of the fine print, and violating the spirit and intent, yet not the letter, of the contract.

If this is how you deal with your business partners, you wonder why employees might want to consider having a union?...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Commercial relationships are based on mutual benefit not treating one side as a slave to the benefit of another.
 
DL has had to start its own domestic hub at SEA in order to feed its own int'l flights... DOT data confirms that AS has provided very little of the feed that AS said they would provide to DL because they preferred instead to sell seats on their own network. 
 
Where is the indictment of AS for failing to live up to the spirit and intent of the expanded AS-DL agreement as well as in AS' move to duplicate the same agreement with AA?
 
BTW, did you notice that AS' own documentation shows that the NW-AS/Horizon agreement goes back further than the AA agreement?

 

[eolesen]

No idea what documentation you're referring to, but they're probably not including the time that interchange was in operation, which dates from 1982 up until 1993 or so, which is when AS and AA started retiring their 727-227's.

The interchange *only* used a handful of aircraft on both sides which had been acquired from Braniff, thus had the same cockpit configuration and performance envelopes. There were enough differences between AS's and AA's MD83's that they couldn't continue to do the interchange as it was, so the codeshare took over. I was part of the team that worked on the transition.

 

[WorldTraveler]

it's in the article that was linked.
 
and, it appears to all be post-deregulation. 

 

[eolesen]

The interchange was also post-deregulation. Braniff operated the interchange until they imploded, and AS switched over to AA in 1982.

I could care less about an infographic prepared by a marketing weenie. The fact remains that AA and AS were in a commercial partnership for almost a decade prior to the codesharing with NW & QX.

Nothing spells partnership like having an AS crew flying an AA aircraft north of SEA, or an AA crew flying an AS aircraft south of SEA.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Argue with AS....it is their graphic

 

[commavia]

The interchange was also post-deregulation. Braniff operated the interchange until they imploded, and AS switched over to AA in 1982.

I could care less about an infographic prepared by a marketing weenie. The fact remains that AA and AS were in a commercial partnership for almost a decade prior to the codesharing with NW & QX.

Nothing spells partnership like having an AS crew flying an AA aircraft north of SEA, or an AA crew flying an AS aircraft south of SEA.

 
Correct.  Commercial linkages between Alaska and AA long predate the codeshare between Alaska and Northwest, let alone Delta.  The actual chart from Alaska clearly says "TIMELINE OF CODESHARE AND FFP RELATIONSHIPS."  Thus it does not include the non-codeshare/FFP relationships that go back far further, including the interchange agreements Alaska operated with both AA and Continental.  And, thus why any statement of Alaska's "agreement" with Northwest predating the "agreement" with AA is somewhat nebulous - it's true Alaska had a codeshare agreement with Northwest first, but Alaska had a non-codeshare agreement with AA years earlier.
 
Nonetheless, all of these meaningless "best in commercial aviation" semantics distract from the far larger and more important point from that "article" and the actual Alaska presentation it was referencing: the Alaska-Delta relationship is clearly rapidly disintegrating, with codesharings and FFP elite benefits being progresively cut, and this provides essentially nothing but upside for AA if AA leadership manages the relationship correctly, which I suspect they will.

 

[eolesen]

I don't need to argue with AS. I've still got the business cards from the folks I worked with on the project.

 

[WorldTraveler]

congratulations on being part of history but they don't consider it part of what they were discussing.
 
you and comm do realize that the title of the graphic is "codeshare and FFP relationships" and it has nothing to do with interchanges?  a little strange to acknowledge the title of the graphic and then morph into some claim-to-fame that is not part of the discussion.
 
perhaps the reason they don't talk about interchanges is because they don't exist today... goes in the history dept, and not something that has any relevance to their operations today.
 
meanwhile other graphics they have provided show that DL is their largest codeshare partner - something the AA fAAnclub argued for years that they were and they also acknowledge that competitive capacity increases are higher than they would like to see and are pressuring their revenue performance. 
 
but hey they denied that AA was losing loads of money flying the Pacific until other sites starting posting the same thing. 
 
the discussion isn't about AA's historical connection to AS... it is about where AS is today and the focus of that discussion is what DL, not AA, is doing. 

 

[robbedagain]

while delta expands sea,  it was announced this evening on wbaltv that AS is going to start 1 daily round trip sea-bwi flight starting sept