DL expands SEA further with SEA-SFO flights

[robbedagain]

Is there a link to wherd dl is freeing up 777 for new transpacific routes

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

KE is a founding member of Skyteam. The exit process to leave any alliance is not easy but esp. for a founding member.
 

I believe CP was a founding member of 1-world and did not have a problem leaving for * when it was acquired by AC.  That was over 10+ years ago.  Wouldn't it be easier today for an airline to "de- integrate" and "re-integrate" into an alliance?  Besides the CP example above, CO left Skyteam and US is leaving *.  Other airlines are joining, or have been joining alliances more or less on an annual basis over the last decade.  What am I missing here?  KE would be probably welcomed to 1-world (I suppose just to stick it to DL   )and/or * (everybody seem to be welcomed there ) and the * and/or 1-world members would probably bend over backwards to make the transition for KE as smooth as possible (technology wise and IT-wise).

 

[WorldTraveler]

there are processes for leaving. I didn't say otherwise.

but everyone that seems to think KE is going to be welcome in other alliances clearly don't understand the fact that KE's ICN hub is a huge threat to any Japanese international airline.

KE is an aggressive airline that is interested in its own interests above all else... but they do have levels of cooperation with their Skyteam partners and not one Skyteam airline has said they have any expectation that KE will leave.

robbed,
you can look at DL's 777 schedules to figure out how DL is freeing up 777 time. DL is operating a couple 777s into LHR this summer while using 744s and 332s on routes that 777s have flown in the past. DL has the capability to add more longhaul flying with its 777 fleet by replacing current 777 flights with other aircraft. You will see even more examples over the next year.

stay tuned.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

but everyone that seems to think KE is going to be welcome in other alliances clearly don't understand the fact that KE's ICN hub is a huge threat to any Japanese international airline.

KE is an aggressive airline that is interested in its own interests above all else... but they do have levels of cooperation with their Skyteam partners and not one Skyteam airline has said they have any expectation that KE will leave.

 
My opinion is that because KE and ICN is what it is (location, network, size, etc.), that exactly for these reasons KE might be welcomed into other alliances. 
Maybe not 1-world as it does did seem to be a more "exclusive" alliance, but it seems like everybody can join * even multiple carriers from the same region (Thai and Singapore as an example from many years ago).  I don't  know if JAL and/or CX would have a veto over KE joining 1-world, they certainly might object but at the same time they'd probably analyze the advantages and disadvantages.  Don't know if NH would object to KE joining *.
I'm not  well versed in the level of co-operation between KE and its Skyteam partners.  OK seems to be the only carrier that is wed to KE and it is relatively tiny.  LH could easily provide probably much more to KE in Europe than what AF/KL bring to the table.  And certainly there's no love lost between DL and KE.

 

[WorldTraveler]

exclusive is just a nice word for it is smaller. Period. Exclusivity would have to translate into some real benefit. If you can prove what the benefit of that exclusivity is, then share the facts - not opinion - with us.

You do realize that Asiana is also part of Star?

KE has the ability to connect most of the TPAC connecting traffic that any Japanese carrier could connect on its own network and do it at lower costs. No Japanese airline wants to allow KE to get very close to them without very strong barriers that would likely make it not worth KE's while to move.

Yes, OK and KE have much tighter relations because OK is doing for KE what other carriers don't want to do. OK needs KE.

You still haven't proven anywhere that KE is interested in leaving Skyteam, that anyone in Skyteam wants them to leave, or that they can find a better home elsewhere.

In the meantime, DL continues to grow its own TPAC network including with a 2nd daily TPAC flight to ICN this summer. And DL will connect passengers beyond ICN using KE's network.

 

[eolesen]

I'd expect DL to leave Skyteam first, given that nobody else is up to their standard.
 

I have posted no information other than what you have posted on here. For some reason you haven't hesitated to post your city or metro area of residence, employment history, political affiliations etc.

I might post opinions that indicate those, but you have no idea where I live or what my voter registration reflects, unless you've found it on another one of your stalker-esque Google binges.

Unless you can quote it, you don't have the right to post it. That's the standard you're holding else to, so try living to it, Skippy.

 

[WorldTraveler]

You put way more information on this site than you possibly realize..... you did forget that your signature for months was about gun ownership and you repeatedly talk about the military?

Given DL and AF-KL have a very strong relationship, DL is not leaving Skyteam.

BTW, since you think DL and KE's relationship is so bad, can you tell us the list of CX flights that connect at DFW to/from AA's DFW-HKG flight, the CX flight number for DFW-HKG, and the revenue sharing arrangements for that flight? Why is CX so not interested in cooperating with AA?

Whether anyone here can accept it or not, every alliance has varying degrees of cooperation between members. AA's level of cooperation with BA is different than it is with QF and yet no rational person says that QF should leave oneworld.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

exclusive is just a nice word for it is smaller. Period. Exclusivity would have to translate into some real benefit. If you can prove what the benefit of that exclusivity is, then share the facts - not opinion - with us.

You do realize that Asiana is also part of Star?

KE has the ability to connect most of the TPAC connecting traffic that any Japanese carrier could connect on its own network and do it at lower costs. No Japanese airline wants to allow KE to get very close to them without very strong barriers that would likely make it not worth KE's while to move.

Yes, OK and KE have much tighter relations because OK is doing for KE what other carriers don't want to do. OK needs KE.

You still haven't proven anywhere that KE is interested in leaving Skyteam, that anyone in Skyteam wants them to leave, or that they can find a better home elsewhere.

In the meantime, DL continues to grow its own TPAC network including with a 2nd daily TPAC flight to ICN this summer. And DL will connect passengers beyond ICN using KE's network.

 
Contrary to what you say, my opinion was, and still is, that it isn't difficult for an airline, even KE to leave an alliance to join another.  Even if it is a founding airline (as KE was for Skyteam).  It has been done before and is being done now and probably in the future too.
 
I'm not going to apologize if my opinion irks you because it is different from yours.
 
Since I don't serve on the KE board of directors or work in the KE corporate offices, I have no idea whether they are interested in leaving Skyteam.  But at the same time, I pretty certain they may have examined the possibilities and crunched the numbers.  Any my opinion is that besides  DL in the USA and AF/KL in Europe, there are others that would provide KE with equal if not better revenue. 
 
So what if Asiana is a part of *?  US was a part of * too but it was treated like the red headed stepchild by UA, LH and AC.  If the choice were between Asiana and KE, is the decision really that difficult to make for * carriers to make?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

BTW, since you think DL and KE's relationship is so bad, can you tell us the list of CX flights that connect at DFW to/from AA's DFW-HKG flight, the CX flight number for DFW-HKG, and the revenue sharing arrangements for that flight? Why is CX so not interested in cooperating with AA?

Whether anyone here can accept it or not, every alliance has varying degrees of cooperation between members. AA's level of cooperation with BA is different than it is with QF and yet no rational person says that QF should leave oneworld.

 
Regardless of what you say, it does seem that the relationship between KE and DL is adversarial. 
http://crankyflier.com/2013/06/06/as-delta-grows-stronger-partner-benefits-suffer/
I don't believe that's the case between AA-BA-QF (or AA-CX or UA-NH, etc.)

 

[WorldTraveler]

your opinion doesn't irk me... but the process of leaving an alliance does take time.

Every company continually evaluates its business relationships. You haven't told us anything that anyone couldn't figure out.

Other companies might provide KE with more revenue... but since every other carrier that could be of interest to KE also has its own interests in the Pacific, there is a whole lot interest in any of those carriers simply providing feed to KE which is what KE wants.

Asiana is not a red headed step child to Star. They are part of the immunized alliance that includes UA and NH.

I don't think DL or KE need a former HP employee to tell them the nature of their relationship. they can figure it out on their own.

When you have some facts to back up your notion that the alliances will be redesigned, get back with us. Right now, there is no information that there are any changes for any of the alliances in store regarding Japan and Korea.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

exclusive is just a nice word for it is smaller. Period. Exclusivity would have to translate into some real benefit. If you can prove what the benefit of that exclusivity is, then share the facts - not opinion - with us.

Opinion:  1-world did seem 'exclusive'. 
AA-CP-BA-CX-QF - you know, kind of like the sun never sets on the british empire exclusive.
 
Fact:  The benefit of 1-world for me was what BA offers when I need to go to Europe - total product.  In terms of schedule * had more frequency and Skyteam (specifically NW-KL, not DL) had cheaper prices, yet I mostly chose to use the "smaller" alliance for my travels. 
 
Hope you're not crying because my opinion and fact put another kink the the DL rules the world theory ... ... ...

 

[WorldTraveler]

wow.... so oneworld was created to be a replacement for the British Empire?

Why would I be crying about what choices you make?

oneworld is still the smallest alliance and you have yet to show on any macro basis it offers some level of value over other alliances.

oneworld is the smallest of the 3 global alliances. that is a fact. You can attach any other descriptions you want but you can't realistically expect us to believe them if you can't back them up with some facts.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

When you have some facts to back up your notion that the alliances will be redesigned, get back with us. Right now, there is no information that there are any changes for any of the alliances in store regarding Japan and Korea.

I'll do that right after you 'educate'   us why leaving an alliance is not easy (as it has been done numerous times without too many problems).

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

wow.... so oneworld was created to be a replacement for the British Empire?

Why would I be crying about what choices you make?

oneworld is still the smallest alliance and you have yet to show on any macro basis it offers some level of value over other alliances.

oneworld is the smallest of the 3 global alliances. that is a fact. You can attach any other descriptions you want but you can't realistically expect us to believe them if you can't back them up with some facts.

No, 1-world was not created to replace the Brit empire.  I said that AA-CP-BA-CX-QF being the founders made it appear in the old British empire kind of a way.  That was my opinion on why I said that 1-world had the exclusive image.  If you can't grasp that, well then there's not much more to discuss.
Good day.

 

[WorldTraveler]

because there are contracts and termination clauses... You do realize that US' logo still appears on Star's website even though Star is a competitor to AAG parent subsidiary AA's oneworld alliance?

I guess leaving hasn't been easy enough that US has ended its participation in Star despite the merger closing almost two months ago

I get that the illusion to the British Empire was yours... but no other alliance follows any other political divisions, current or former, so I'm not sure what value looking like the British Empire adds to oneworld.