DL BOS-LGA Shuttle goes mainline

[BABABOOY]

Say what you will but it's more jobs for Delta Flight Attendants as we continue to hire.

 

[WorldTraveler]

US would and does staff it with M/L folks.    and this is not about US at LGA    this is bout DL    And it would be welcome for DL M/L folks to have jobs should DL ever decide to have their own peeps working the mainline metal

the US/AA response was driven by the comment about DL's decision to have a split operation. They have one already and have had a split operation since, wait, 1991, when they took over the Shuttle.

AA/US JUST merged.

We have yet to hear how AA/US will integrate/partition its operation at LGA  
 

Say what you will but it's more jobs for Delta Flight Attendants as we continue to hire.

well of course it is.

 

[eolesen]

Most people know the shuttle to DCA & BOS run from the MAT. The decision to move the ORD flights over there is what's confused customers in the past decade.

Short of major construction to connect the airside fingers of the CTB and/or Terminal C, the problems at LGA won't be solved anytime soon.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL didn't operate LGA-ORD flights before starting them from the MAT so there is no confusion because of a MOVE to there. DL has operated BOS-ORD flights and I wouldn't be surprised if the E175s that are freed up for LGA-BOS don't migrate north to BOS and help connect key markets elsewhere on DL's system; given that mainline aircraft are likely to backfill some of the Ejet markets on the west coast, there might not be a huge need for more west coast E175s. SAN-SEA which was just started has already been upgraded to 3 out of 4 flights on mainline.

Back at LGA, there may be people who are confused to find ORD flights in the MAT but since DL didn't operate them before, it is due to the fact that AA and UA's flights operate from their main terminals, not because DL moved them.

It is also very possible that DL is willing to move its entire operation to the C/D terminals - and other carriers might be willing to do the same thing - but it will come with a price. It is either money changing hands for airlines to decide to swap gates or pay for a connector.

With DL in 3 terminals at LGA, they are in the strongest position to decide how to consolidate their facilities or not.

For now, DL has an average fare premium in the local ORD-LGA market compared to AA and UA and carries 85% of the local revenue that UA carries so the right people are managing to figure out where to find DL flights.

 

[eolesen]

Classic. It's UA and AA's fault that DL's customers are confused.

85% of the local revenue UA carries, eh? What's your data show that being compared to AA?

AA has held onto a 45-50% share in the market from what I can see, leaving UA and DL to fight over who gets 20-25% share each, and that doesn't even consider WN or NK's influence or share.

 

[WorldTraveler]

You are the one that made the assertion that DL's customers are confused.

IN fact, for DL to have a revenue premium over AA and UA, DL knows how to get the right customers.

As with many markets, AA has higher share but lower average fares. The, uh, Pacific comes to mind.

WN doesn't and won't fly to ORD.

But they will fly to DAL, a market where AA stands to lose a whole lot more because it does have both a market share and revenue share premium.

The number of markets with AA revenue premiums is shrinking.

AA has a poor track record of maintain average fare premiums in highly competitive markets.

ORD-LGA is a perfect example.

DL gets 20% of the market and gets an average fare premium.

DL's customers aren't confused.

 

[eolesen]

You are the one that made the assertion that DL's customers are confused.

Uh, no. I'm not. I just said there's a point of diminishing returns if customers are confused. You projected that to be a slam against DL, Skippy.

DL gets 20% of the market and gets an average fare premium.

DL's customers aren't confused.

Well, that's not what Ad said at the top of the page. Maybe you need to redirect the vitriol a bit.

If DL is getting 20% of the market, that would mean UA has 23.5%, leaving AA with >50% share, more than twice the wallet share of the market.

 

[robbedagain]

E you seem to know what youre saying when it comes to figures like that   WT just doesn't seem to grasp it.   or has not comprehended anything regarding that.    

 

[WorldTraveler]

Uh, no. I'm not. I just said there's a point of diminishing returns if customers are confused. You projected that to be a slam against DL, Skippy.


Well, that's not what Ad said at the top of the page. Maybe you need to redirect the vitriol a bit.

If DL is getting 20% of the market, that would mean UA has 23.5%, leaving AA with >50% share, more than twice the wallet share of the market.

I am not seeing anything as a slam against DL.

The vitrol is all yours.

You are the one that made the charge that DL customers are confused.

With the smallest number of seats in the market of the big 3, DL still manages to get over 20% and gets a revenue premium relative to both AA and UA.

And yes, AA does have about half of the market (NK has about 10). But DL's average fare is about $35 higher than AA's.

Maybe AA is satisfied with going after market share but DL and UA both have higher average fares.

And the number of markets where AA has premium pricing relative to competitors is shrinking and will dramatically shrink as WN liberates N. Texas.. and gets help from other airlines as well.

specific to ORD-LGA, DL's customers are clearly not confused or else the ones that really matter manage to find their way onto DL aircraft.

Specific to LGA-BOS and LGA-DCA, DL has the highest revenue in both local markets.

The charge that Ad made about confusion and split terminal operations at LGA makes no more sense than the fact that AA/US are spread over two terminals and will have an equally split operation that will be confusing or else have to operate with parts on a standalone basis.

As much as some AA fans want to talk about AA's terminal and gate advantage at LAX, they sure aren't willing to admit that DL has at in NYC where DL has a considerably larger share of the market than AA and US combined.

 

[AirLUVer]

It is easier to get a revenue "premium" with fewer seats. An e175 has a greater ratio of first class seats than a S80. And a smaller number of seats to sell, means a smaller amount of discounting that may have to be done to fill the flight.u

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

The moon could fall out of orbit too.DL mainline employees work all flights in C/D including 100 or more regional carrier operated flights.  and yet DL has a higher share of the market than US does.There are abundant signs in the terminal and on the roadways around LGA.Would you like to tell us how different AA will be with their Shuttle flights in different terminals.. .and there isn't even room to move US flights to the CTB.

Since you're the Delta genius, you should already know DL operated LGA-BOS out of the MAT with Airbuses not too long ago, what changed, please?

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

and yet DL has a higher share of the market than US does.There are abundant signs in the terminal and on the roadways around LGA.

Praytell, does the business traveler from manhattan read those signs, or does Habeeb the cab driver who just got off the boat two weeks ago from Bangladesh read those signs?

And who lives in NYC, you, or me?

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

I sure wish Whiskey Tango could see the look on the biz travelers' faces, when I tell them they have to exit security and get on the red circular port authority bus to take them over to the MAT when their plane departs in 40 minutes... And you know they take it out on me because I am an airline employee in an airline uniform (the first one they saw, natch) even though I'm not getting paid for that ish...

Forum addendum: my DL domestic partner of 4 years asked me to leave and we are no longer together, so I no longer have DL pass privileges, if anyone's keeping track. Long story short, he's a cheating douche.

 

[eolesen]

You are the one that made the charge that DL customers are confused.

Liar. That was Ad, not me.
 

Maybe AA is satisfied with going after market share but DL and UA both have higher average fares.

AA hasn't been chasing share -- they've traditionally held about half the ORD-LGA market, and it's only gone up since UA de-emphasised LGA after their merger, lest it start to cannibalize ORD-EWR.

Enjoy the data while you can. Once US & AA get their corporate contracts harmonized, I'd expect to see things improving as far as average revenue goes.

 

[FWAAA]

I sure wish Whiskey Tango could see the look on the biz travelers' faces, when I tell them they have to exit security and get on the red circular port authority bus to take them over to the MAT when their plane departs in 40 minutes... And you know they take it out on me because I am an airline employee in an airline uniform (the first one they saw, natch) even though I'm not getting paid for that ish...

Similar to those times that a pilot will walk up to a random, unoccupied gate podium to use the computer and suddenly, a line of passengers forms with all sorts of questions about their flight (departing from that gate in an hour or two) and the pilot has to tell them:
 
A.   I'm not an agent - I'm a pilot;   and
 
B.   An agent will be along eventually to board this flight and take care of all your high-maintenance problems.
 
Difference is, of course, is that DL passengers are asking you for assistance, while the pilots in my example are besieged by AA passengers.   Kind of you to help point them in the right direction.   
 
Sorry to hear of your breakup.