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Delts urges swift confirmation of NMB Nominee

From what Delta is saying SOC is being moved up to the end of THIS year.
And they also know that we won't ALL be trained until March. so...?
I guess anything could happen.
 
maybe it was a projection?
we have to go through two training periods slotted in different months, integration and aircraft. I wonder if all integration training satisfied by the end of the year..including a majority of aircraft qualified..(sort of like once reaching a certain level percentage trained would satisfy the criteria) and would enable the opportunity to grant an SOC at the end of the year?

personally am scheduled to have both training periods completed by OCT (as well as many others) so who knows?

it just seems to make sense.. that all training must be completed prior to issuing an SOC and that would happen next year?

however..

the integration process is just moving right ahead..(and quite efficiently I might add) my base has been completely re-branded and of course we are already aligned in the DAL uniform and aspects of Inflight service products...and if most of the training is completed by the end of the year?


well...?
 
BABABOOY said:
From what Delta is saying SOC is being moved up to the end of THIS year.
And they also know that we won't ALL be trained until March. so...?
I guess anything could happen.
Click to expand...

So the central question is:
Can the FAA issue a Single Operating Certificate (SOC) to the combined carrier even though all FAs have not been trained on each other's aircraft?

If no, then it will be issued in March...as long as other non IN-flite objectives have been satisfied.
If yes, then fine but it still doesn't help us fully integrate because there will be some 3 month's-worth of pre-merger Delta FAs untrained on NW a/c types. Trust me, Delta is not going to open up bidding on NW a/c to some pre-merger Delta FAs on Jan 1, leaving those still untrained out in the cold. That would be a complete violation of seniority. Plus it would cause operational problems w/ re-routes, etc...
Bottom line: None of this matters because WE CAN NOT FLY TOGETHER UNTIL ALL TRAINING IS COMPLETE. That is slated for March 1st, 2010.
So take a deep breath. BB--you have plenty of time to fly 744s and A330s, even DC9s if you want. Likewise, Dignity...you will have 777, 67, 37 to fly before you know it.
Truly, patience is a virtue.
Inhale, Exhale, Inhale, Exhale...aaaahhhhh
 
LukeAisleWalker said:
Likewise, Dignity...you will have 777, 67, 37 to fly before you know it.
Click to expand...
I recall you once wrote that not everyone was 777 qualified only at certain bases, is that going to change going forward? maybe they can actually receive an SOC by having the majority of people trained on certain aircraft by years end? or maybe what type of aircraft will be positioned at a specific base?
 
Assuming a SOC and a decertification of the afa-CWA on the NWA side, I do not think that we will have to wait until everyone is trained on everyone else's equipment before they start moving aircraft types around.

As soon as we have enough people in a domicile to adequately staff an equipment type, I think that they will move it if it is needed.

For example, at premerger Delta, flight attendants are not required to be trained on all equipment. We have flight attendants who are not trained trained on the 777. Not everyone was trained on the MD-11.

In sum, as soon as the aircraft can be moved, it will.
 
aislehopper said:
Assuming a SOC and a decertification of the afa-CWA on the NWA side, I do not think that we will have to wait until everyone is trained on everyone else's equipment before they start moving aircraft types around.

As soon as we have enough people in a domicile to adequately staff an equipment type, I think that they will move it if it is needed.

For example, at premerger Delta, flight attendants are not required to be trained on all equipment. We have flight attendants who are not trained trained on the 777. Not everyone was trained on the MD-11.

In sum, as soon as the aircraft can be moved, it will.
Click to expand...
:down:

The a/c may be moved but they will still be staffed with each other's pre-merger FAs.
Your comparison to the 777/MD11 is not appropriate in this case because training on these a/c types is/was VOLUNTARY. Training on NW a/c types is MANDATORY. If you read the last part of yesterdays' Delta net posting, you will see an addendum which states that 777 training will be done at a seperate time for pre-merger DL FAs not yet qualified. At the end it states the goal is for ALL combined FAs to be trained on ALL a/c types. This is a different policy approach than the one they've maintained since the MD11 was introduced into the fleet 20 years ago. I say again, if Delta were to begin bringing in a/c types to all bases and allowing those trained to bid on them but those who have not yet attended class to be shut out, you will see all hell break loose. The training dates are based on when your CQ date is. It is not a voluntary issue. If someone wants to go the first month, but their CQ training is later, then they don't go. It won't be in their 3 month window.
Also, think of reroutes.
Also, think of how Delta schedules a variety of 3 and 4 FA-manned a/c on one rotation (MD88 trip with legs on MD90 and 737-700, 757 trips with legs on 737-800a/c). This provides the company with much flexibility.
Long story short, they are not going to do this for a mere 2 month jumpstart. It would reek unnecessary havoc on the operation, not to mention animosity with those locked out of the bidding process due to their not yet being trained.
 
Dignity said:
I recall you once wrote that not everyone was 777 qualified only at certain bases, is that going to change going forward? maybe they can actually receive an SOC by having the majority of people trained on certain aircraft by years end? or maybe what type of aircraft will be positioned at a specific base?
Click to expand...

Please see my above post.
About the 777, that is true for now but looks to be changing per my understanding of yesterday's Delta net memo.
They may well receive the SOC before all of us are trained. But from an operational standpoint, I just don't see Delta opening that can of worms. (Again, see my post above.)
 
aislehopper said:
For example, at premerger Delta, flight attendants are not required to be trained on all equipment. We have flight attendants who are not trained trained on the 777. Not everyone was trained on the MD-11.
Click to expand...
that is what I wonder?

being trained specifically on what aircraft is positioned at base or division initially to satisfy the SOC?

for example, the 767 and 737(including pre-merger NW aircraft currently qualified) is theorically positioned at a specific base, maybe to satisfy the SOC.. a Flight Attendant needs to be initially trained on only those two and then other aircraft types.. should that individual voluntarily transfer to another base that specifically flies the 777?
 
LukeAisleWalker said:
About the 777, that is true for now but looks to be changing per my understanding
Click to expand...
I assumed we were going to be trained on all aircraft types, because that has always been the case for us..

LukeAisleWalker said:
They may well receive the SOC before all of us are trained. But from an operational standpoint, I just don't see Delta opening that can of worms.
Click to expand...
I do not have a specific reference, but I sort of recall they said..shortly after the SOC they had planned(or the intent was..) to have us bid all aircraft? personally would hope to have the ability to fly an aircraft that is positioned at base.. currently qualified when an SOC has been issued, you know?

if it is actually possible an SOC is available at the end of the year and the union has not addressed an election...with capacity cuts in effect, there is going to be a problem..regarding a perception of important issues not being addressed timely..
 
LukeAisleWalker said:
:down:

At the end it states the goal is for ALL combined FAs to be trained on ALL a/c types. This is a different policy approach than the one they've maintained since the MD11 was introduced into the fleet 20 years ago.
Click to expand...

You are right. Delta never jumps the gun when it introduces something, never backs away from a policy decision, and never misses a goal. 😉
 
I guess what I am not following here is the fact pre-merger DAL Flight Attendants are not trained on all their aircraft at this time.. so why would it be necessary for all pre-merger NW Flight Attendants to be trained on all pre-Merger DAL equipment when in fact.. not all per-merger DAL Flight Attendants are trained on all their aircraft in the first place.. in order to obtain an SOC?

it seems as though a projection of an end of the year SOC, is a real possibility.
 
There is not an FAA requirement that all FA's be trained on all equipment before granting a SOC. What would be required is to somehow split the FA group up - say only train FA's on the planes that are in their base, at least until all are trained on all equipment. Of course, that could present some operational problems when a FA needs replacing and the FA's at that base aren't trained on the right equipment. You can think of this as sorta like pilot's training for an SOC - they're only trained on the new policy/procedures/checklists for the plane they're flying, not all airplanes since when they switch airplanes they'll be trained on the integrated policy/procedures/checklists for the new airplane.

Someone also mentioned that the training was in two parts, one of which was airplane training and the other integration training. From the way that sounds (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) it may be possible to have all the FA's complete the airplane training so the FAA will issue the SOC, but not have the integration training (I'm assuming that's service procedures type stuff) completed by every FA yet.

Jim
 
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