Delta To Adjust Fleet Soon After NW Merger

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Confirmed in a letter from Joanne Smith (10/06),
they WILL, shortly after APPROVAL, and before Single operating
certificate, will re-arrange A/C and to expect different pairings.
Mentioned 747 in ATL. "Pilots and F/A will continue to fly with their respected pre-merger A/C".

Interesting. Thanks.

I was told all the NW 747s were being eliminated.

Understandable from a staffing/operating old aircraft perspective but those planes sure brought in a lot of revenue and I would be disappointed to see them eliminated.

 

[DalMD88]

Interesting. Thanks.

I was told all the NW 747s were being eliminated.

Understandable from a staffing/operating old aircraft perspective but those planes sure brought in a lot of revenue and I would be disappointed to see them eliminated.

The 747-400 fleet will be in DL colors within the next year. As for the 747-200 and the Cargo aircraft, I wouldn't expect to see them around much longer. Their demise isn't set in stone, but the future looks bleak.

 

[Dignity]

Interesting. Thanks.

I was told all the NW 747s were being eliminated.

more than likely it would probably be cost effective to upgrade interiors(especially coach on the 400) than to replace an entire aircraft in the short term(8-12 years). I wonder if they are to retire all the 747s, what will be the replacement for a 400 seat wide body in the interim? how does an airline maintains a global status(internationally) by not having the necessary equipment to maintain the hubs for the international routes through out the system and satisfying the slots at NRT especially with an aircraft having the range and seating capacity of the 400? what is the replacement aircraft?

while the 777 is more economical and fuel efficient than the 747, it also has 100 less seats. same as the 330 is to a 767 but all the aircrafts are necessary for an international presence(replacing a fleet is very expensive). are some of the 767 older than the 400? maybe they will upgrade more 767, as well as the interiors on the 400(definitely upgrade coach)... (the 330 is brand new probably keep coach interiors initially and streamline the business cabins on all aircraft) ..(ETOPS more 767?) while shifting aircraft and rightsizing the fleet. I would not be at all surprised to see the 777/787/330 in JFK and the 777/787 on the nonstop to Asia, the 787/777/767 in addition at the Midwest hubs(especially the 787 nonstop to China when it is delivered) and a mix of all international aircraft in the southern hub and eventually the 747 would probably end up South America?/Asia and possible Cargo? but the 747-400 completely retired within 10 years..I doubt it..(200s probably). the 757Atlantic/International will more than likely be utilized as needed. Probably the majority of International routes will remain(and added) operated by different aircraft after certification where it is determined to make the most sense. I would not be surprised at all to see a 747-400 next year in a brand new livery/new interiors/upgraded Business-Upperdeck cabins.

probably what will happen is all domestic aircraft will be freshened with new interiors and amenities IFE, all international interiors will be upgraded(especially the coach cabins) all the Business Class product the same... But they are going to need all the planes including the 747-400. the only aircraft I imagine that would be retired in (4-6 years) is the DC9 and the last one to be officially retired would be the DC9-50.

 

[North by Northwest]

Interesting. Thanks.

I was told all the NW 747s were being eliminated.

Understandable from a staffing/operating old aircraft perspective but those planes sure brought in a lot of revenue and I would be disappointed to see them eliminated.

Perhaps you are referring to the 747-200 (which are only flown as Freighter or Special Charters). As Delta has only flown one model, the first, the 100 in the 1970's. You may not be familiar with the 747 models.

Northwest has flown all models except the 300. Northwest introduced the newest model 747-400 in 1989. Moreover, NWA's most recent 400's are from 2002.

(All ordered under RAnderson) The 400=being a favorite of his....'January 16: Northwest announces it will acquire 24 Airbus A330-300 aircraft, 20 Boeing B757-300 aircraft, two B747-400s. Deliveries of the A330s will begin in 2003 and continue through 2006 deliveries of the B757s will begin in 2002 and B747s will be delivered in 2002.

"The 747-400, the latest version in service, is among the fastest airliners in service with a high-subsonic cruise speed of Mach 0.85 (567 mph or 913 km/h). It has an intercontinental range of 7,260 nautical miles (8,350 mi or 13,450 km).[9] The 747-400 passenger version can accommodate 416 passengers in a typical three-class layout or 524 passengers in a typical two-class layout."


However, most of NWA 400's are far newer, newer in fact than many of Delta's 767's.

I hardly doubt the 400's will be going anywhere as they serve a unique and vital purpose in the trans Pacific and high density Hub to Hub trans Atlantic, contributing to Northwest's above average industry yield.

 

[Dignity]

I hardly doubt the 400's will be going anywhere as they serve a unique and vital purpose in the transpacific and high density Hub to Hub transpacific contributing to Northwest's above average industry yield.

I agree,
the demand in Asia has been increasing (even during the economic downturns) and the percentage has increased each year up to 6 percent(the demand is in a steady growth). The transpacific operation is so valuable(long term) it will more than likely be half the value of the combined company (they need as many seats as possible) not a decrease. NRT will more than likely see post certification 777/330/787/757P and 747-400 (maybe even a 767 intra Asia substituting/or complimenting the 757P if the demand continues and utilizing the 757 international version on more Atlantic for new destinations/rightsized markets that may not necessarily require a larger aircraft)

 

[North by Northwest]

You are right Dig...

Tokyo, the richest city in the world, along with Japan being the richest nation in Asia, is the only one weathering this storm better than most. Northwest holds by far the most slots into Tokyo than any other carrier outside of JAL. Trans Pacific will grow and grow big.

NWA was just waiting... waiting .....still waiting, for the 787 orders to launch a massive Pacific expansion of non stops to Asia, India, SYD.

 

[Dignity]

The 400=being a favorite of his....'January 16: Northwest announces it will acquire 24 Airbus A330-300 aircraft, 20 Boeing B757-300 aircraft, two B747-400s. Deliveries of the A330s will begin in 2003 and continue through 2006 deliveries of the B757s will begin in 2002 and B747s will be delivered in 2002

yah betcha dont-cha-no!

even though NW was the launch customer of the 747-400 in 1989, they continued to take delivery up to 2002 of new 747s. that makes me wonder why in the world would a 6 year old aircraft be retired? especially one that has 400 plus seats?

 

[bagboy]

The 747-400 fleet will be in DL colors within the next year. As for the 747-200 and the Cargo aircraft, I wouldn't expect to see them around much longer. Their demise isn't set in stone, but the future looks bleak.

Why would DL dump the NW Cargo operation?

 

[DalMD88]

Why would DL dump the NW Cargo operation?

Rumor is the margins on the operation are pretty low. Tech Ops would love to keep the operation just so it is there when we need to move a engine. Moving a 777 engine half way around the world AOG is very expensive. That doesn't happen very often so that purpose alone doiesn't justify keeping the cargo fleet.

 

[Dignity]

Rumor is the margins on the operation are pretty low. Tech Ops would love to keep the operation just so it is there when we need to move a engine. Moving a 777 engine half way around the world AOG is very expensive. That doesn't happen very often so that purpose alone doiesn't justify keeping the cargo fleet.

can the airline pull grounded aircraft from storage and convert them to freighters? I wonder because NW operates a sub fleet for cargo and interesting enough they may out pace the passenger aircraft for profitability on nearly every flight offered to Asia(with that cargo service alone) and ultimately generates higher revenue. satisfying the fifth freedom rights into Japan and those slots with passenger and freighter aircraft, I would be very surprised to see cargo eliminated completely..then I wonder why would they even do that in the first place..especially to Asia..?
Does DAL have MD-11 or other suitable sized aircraft that is in the desert that can be pulled and utilized as freighters by a conversion?

 

[BABABOOY]

After receiving this new information (Letter confirming equipment swaps immediately) and then
re-reading this thread, There are a few questions:
Will NW f/a's be "compensated" for loss of a particular route?
Also, what happens to the LOD flight attendants? Say NW takes over ATL-GRU or
NYC-ATH,TLV,CAI,AMM. They don't have LOD flight attendants. And they say Delta
crews are supposed to remain with "their respective, pre-merger A/C". big mess huh?
I really hope they Dead Head crews instead of 6 -8 or more day trips.....

 

[North by Northwest]

After receiving this new information (Letter confirming equipment swaps immediately) and then
re-reading this thread, There are a few questions:
Will NW f/a's be "compensated" for loss of a particular route?
Also, what happens to the LOD flight attendants? Say NW takes over ATL-GRU or
NYC-ATH,TLV,CAI,AMM. They don't have LOD flight attendants. And they say Delta
crews are supposed to remain with "their respective, pre-merger A/C". big mess huh?
I really hope they Dead Head crews instead of 6 -8 or more day trips.....

NW has plenty of LOD crews for most all Asian/European/ Middle Eastern languages (from it's own hiring and former Pan Am crews)...and many thousands more that speak more than one language. NW FA's can not "lose" a route as it is a violation of a legally binding contract. They can "agree" to a side letter and be compensated.

It appears they are looking at small sateilite bases for NW crews. (Atl)

 

[Dignity]

NW has plenty of LOD crews for most all Asian/European/ Middle Eastern languages (from it's own hiring and former Pan Am crews)..

North,
I agree..
there are many Flight Attendants who speaks languages that are not recognized in the current LOD program, such as Russian, Norwegian, Scandinavian languages and the former Pan Am and some former Eastern now at NW seem to always speak at least one other.. (NW has always been a predominately International airline with a focus on Asia but they seem to have a lot of former Flight Attendants from Pan Am and other airlines hired at a time when languages were necessary, just my experience ), as a matter of fact in the early 90s the US Flight Attendants hired almost exclusively spoke Asian languages. I recall a south trip and one of the South Flight Attendants I was working with spoke 4 languages, Cantonese, English, French and Japanese. believe she was HKG based.. also noticed some of the Flight Attendants I have worked with that speak Dutch also seem to have multiple languages. After a combination of both groups speakers I dont think languages are really going to be an issue at all regarding staffing LOD.

 

[Dignity]

After receiving this new information (Letter confirming equipment swaps immediately).

Bababooy,
Hi there..in my opinion..whatever they have planned probably is a single flight/city to an International hub(one flight from a US hub to an International hub). I would be very surprised to see anything other than NRT, CDG or AMS at this point...especially since it has been mentioned specifically 747 in the news reports released and the fact it seems they direct passenger traffic through those hubs outside the US. whatever is being shifted at this time is more than likely not very significant regarding the operations of new aircraft at a different hub. maybe they need an aircraft to fly a new route(non hub) the 747 with range and seating capacity can accomidate? (but still its probably a single flight/city)