Delta Schedule Changes

[topDawg]

When does the DL pilot contract expire? When are openers?

contract becomes amendable late this year.

Delta has made it clear to DALPA that they want to get a quick contract (my guess is they don't want to by like UA/CO and merge with an open pilot contract) but i think it, and the UA/CO CBA, will be a long term knock down drag out. No judge and ALPA will be fighting for its life.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I understand the concept of a contract quite well and also understand that DL is not in compliance with the terms regarding JV.
But just because DL cannot meet the terms of the contract does not mean that ALPA will succeed in getting them to fly more flights to meet the requirements of a clause which perhaps cannot be met any longer or succeed at getting a pay raise to compensate for the clause no longer working as it once did.
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The simple fact is that DL started the process a year ago of pulling down TATL capacity based on what it saw as significant changes in the market. The fact that other carriers have reported significantly worse financial results (lower RASM) on their TATL operations than DL shows DL made the right decision. The question then is to make the pilot contract fit the market realities.
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It is very possible that DALPA will ask for increased pay, but again let's remember that DL pilots are the highest paid network carrier pilots. Yes, WN pilots make more but remember that their leadership is telling them their pay is unsustainably high. The chances that there will be significant increases in pilot salaries in the US are very slim, esp. considering where AA is and the fact that UA apparently is not very interested in completing labor integration because doing so will require them to shell out alot more cash to their employees - cash they cannot afford to pay.
Sure, RJ scope could be pulled back but let's also keep in mind that DL is moving more aggressively at pulling down small RJ capacity than any other network carrier. Sure, what may be left are the 70-76 seaters but when half of DL's RJ capacity is via 50 seaters, significant cuts in 50 seat flying does translate into less "outsourced" capacity to regional carriers.
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I still argue that if DL succeeds in acquiring a significant portion of AA's LHR operations (or anyone else's for that matter), DL might be content to scale back the JV, esp. since AF is going through a significant restructuring and they/KL provide most of DL's current LHR slots. If DL can gain LHR access on its own then it might be alot necessary to have a JV when you can provide 80% of what your passengers need on your own aircraft... and obviously the pilots would be happy to see reductions in the amount of flying done by other carriers.
But remember that DL has picked up some of the flying for AF (ORD and SEA to CDG) and could pick up even more since DL is a lower cost producer than AF. The pilots would have to consider how much of that flying DL would do if a JV was terminated. DL obviously operates an enormous amount of capacity into AMS and CDG that is part of the JV. DL could choose to reduce the size of the JV - and it might make sense to do so to protect DL from AF's losses - but for now DL pilots might be able to pick up more and more JV flying while AF works itself through their restructuring.
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Having an open pilot contract would be a distraction in merger activity and DL did gain a huge advantage in the DL/NW merger by getting the pilots to agree to a contract before the merger - but keep in mind that a disproportionate amount of potential growth for DL through merger/acquisition or internally will come in int'l markets.
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Bottom line is that fixing the JV requirements needs to be done... but it is relatively small in the scope of issues facing US airline pilots overall and it is also in DL and DALPA's interest to work together to go after whatever opportunities that might arise, including the ability to expand DL's international system, the most likely place where merger/acquisition activity will occur.
It was precisely the fact that DL and NW pilots recognized the value of that transaction that they quickly came to agreement - and the benefit was significant growth over the Pacific.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I understand the concept of a contract quite well and also understand that DL is not in compliance with the terms regarding JV.
But just because DL cannot meet the terms of the contract does not mean that ALPA will succeed in getting them to fly more flights to meet the requirements of a clause which perhaps cannot be met any longer or succeed at getting a pay raise to compensate for the clause no longer working as it once did.

So to use your term, DL was forced to agree to contracts they couldn't meet?

Jim

BTW, can you give me the name of any carrier that reports RASM by sector? You do keep repeating that DL's trans-Atlantic RASM is so much better than everyone else...

 

[WorldTraveler]

So to use your term, DL was forced to agree to contracts they couldn't meet?

Jim

BTW, can you give me the name of any carrier that reports RASM by sector? You do keep repeating that DL's trans-Atlantic RASM is so much better than everyone else...

yes, DL signed a contract and they have to live with the consequences of it, renegotiate it with the affected parties, or go onto BK where it is possible to toss out contracts. My bet is they will renegotiate the term about the JV with DALPA and DALPA will be smart enough to recognize they have more to gain by cooperating and gaining new opportunities - which I am certain DL will work to provide them. DL and DALPA have a knack for being able to find win-win solutions.
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Yes, on a quarterly basis ALL OTHER network carriers report RASM change by region and some carriers specificially note their specific RASM by region.
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On a monthly basis, the trend has become that RASM change is reported for the consolidated system of each airline on a monthly basis. AA has not adopted this practice and likely will not start in BK. Other network and many LFCs report consolidated RASM change with their monthly traffic reports. Some carriers note cash and fuel price as well.

 

[BoeingBoy]

yes, DL signed a contract and they have to live with the consequences of it, renegotiate it with the affected parties, or go onto BK where it is possible to toss out contracts. My bet is they will renegotiate the term about the JV with DALPA and DALPA will be smart enough to recognize they have more to gain by cooperating and gaining new opportunities - which I am certain DL will work to provide them. DL and DALPA have a knack for being able to find win-win solutions.

So the JV partners have no say?

Yes, on a quarterly basis ALL OTHER network carriers report RASM change by region and some carriers specificially note their specific RASM by region.

Sorry, I thought you were referring to a monthly basis.

Jim

 

[WorldTraveler]

JV partners have a say in how the JV may be renegotiated... but the issue that is of concern to the pilots is that DL is not flying enough of its own flights while retaining the JV. Each carrier is responsible for implementing its own labor relations within the agreements of the JV.
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I still think that DL pilots will quickly realize that reworking the scope regarding the JV or finding alternate areas that can be adjusted to compensate for the fact that DL cannot economically add more flying right now will prove to be pretty small on the list of industry issues facing the pilot community.
Doesn't mean it should be just wiped under the rug and forgotten about it... but the idea that DALPA is going to force DL to add flights or add huge pay increases to make up for a scope clause that doesn't work is not realistic. Remember that the JV language did work for several years. It has only been the schedule pulldowns of the past year which are driven by structual changes in how DL is operating its TATL system that have likely made it impossible for the former JV clause to be usable again.

 

[robbedagain]

heard that come Mar 25 that Delta is ending Bos DCA service all together plus losing other BOS flights includ BOS-CDG and reducing to 1 flight BOS-LHR or LGW

 

[WorldTraveler]

heard that come Mar 25 that Delta is ending Bos DCA service all together plus losing other BOS flights includ BOS-CDG and reducing to 1 flight BOS-LHR or LGW

DL pulled down the BOS-DCA service as part of the DCA slot swap. IIRC B6 is adding 2 new DCA-BOS flights which work out to about $2-3M in revenue to DL in the form of the slot sales... plus it allows B6 to increase its presence in a key and high value US market.
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The BOS-CDG flight on DL was planned in addition to the AF flights which are operated under the JV. DL has replaced AF in several markets... the number of DL flights to CDG is much higher than it was last year.
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The second daily flight to LHR was pulled down after the summer season last year. DOT data from last year shows that DL is getting average fares on par with AA in the BOS-LHR market. Having a presence in the BOS-LHR market is clearly necessary for DL to secure some of the corporate contracts.... DL remains the largest US network carrier at BOS and also has the largest int'l presence.

 

[tom barry]

DL pulled down the BOS-DCA service as part of the DCA slot swap. IIRC B6 is adding 2 new DCA-BOS flights which work out to about $2-3M in revenue to DL in the form of the slot sales... plus it allows B6 to increase its presence in a key and high value US market.
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The BOS-CDG flight on DL was planned in addition to the AF flights which are operated under the JV. DL has replaced AF in several markets... the number of DL flights to CDG is much higher than it was last year.
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The second daily flight to LHR was pulled down after the summer season last year. DOT data from last year shows that DL is getting average fares on par with AA in the BOS-LHR market. Having a presence in the BOS-LHR market is clearly necessary for DL to secure some of the corporate contracts.... DL remains the largest US network carrier at BOS and also has the largest int'l presence.

Ahhh, but the two things DL covets Most, they will Never have.

Sizable JFK/LHR....................and MIA/SA.

Sorry !

 

[eolesen]

Ah, the splitting of hairs continues.

Just looking at US carriers for a moment....

        Flights   DL      UA      AA      US      WN      F9    AS      VX     B6      NK
BOS      356      66      44      32      64      34      1      3      6     101      6
         356      19%     12%      9%     18%      9%     0%     1%     2%     28%     2%

WT is right that DL holds a 2 flight lead over US for the most departures of a legacy carrier out of BOS.... That might as well be a rounding error...

But B6 is still very much the Mayor of BOS, with a 28% of scheduled departures.

Something else to consider is that DL's had to contract out 26 of their departures, US has contracted out 30, and UA has contracted out 10.

When you consider that all of the "network carriers" plus WN are operating between 32 and 40 trips a day on their own metal, it's much more of a contest than some might want to admit.

Filter out B6's E190 flying, and you've got them "only" running 46 A320s a day.

Lots of hairs to split at BOS.... and the only thing that WT's disclaimed statistic proves is that DL are trying really, really hard to be the biggest carrier by whatever statistic they can find, aside from the one that matters --- market share.

 

[eolesen]

OK, mea culpa, I found an error in the OAG queries..

DepCity Flights     DL    UA    AA    US    WN    FL    F9   AS   VX   B6    NK
BOS       405       75    54    35    92    18   15    1    3    6    100    6

DL appears to have fewer departures at BOS than US, who is dangerously close to parity with B6.

 

[WorldTraveler]

except that passengers don't buy flights, they buy seats and on that basis DL has more seats than US. And DL also carries its passengers a whole lot further to/from BOS than US....
Since DL carries its passengers further than US and gets much higher revenue than B6 for every SEAT it does fill, DL is actually the largest revenue carrier in BOS.
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Would you like to tell any of us, E, when a shareholder or investor or analyst cared about market share rather than revenue?
Airlines are businesses and REVENUE is what matters. All that matters.
Well, profit matters but since we can't see that other than at a system level, revenue is the closest proxy.
But remember that US has higher costs than DL so even if US had the same revenues as DL, DL would be more profitable than US would.

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Any other city you would like to discuss?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Airlines are businesses and REVENUE is what matters. All that matters.

Are you using that "unreliable" DOT data again...

Jim

 

[WorldTraveler]

any source that accurately portrays revenue should come up with the same answer... DL's BOS revenue is about 20% larger than B6's revenue... that is more than just a little difference.
Of course DL's international revenue including its new flights to LHR contribute handsomely to that total in the same way that AA at one time was the dominant revenue carrier in BOS at the same time it was the largest int'l carrier. WAS.

 

[BoeingBoy]

any source that accurately portrays revenue should come up with the same answer...

Just wondered since you said...let me get the quote exactly right..."Whether the BTS says so or not. The BTS measures data for different purposes than what is required under accounting rules."

Jim