Delta records another very strong quarter

[BABABOOY]

Many including myself aren't interested in Delta "raising salaries faster than any".  What most of us like
to see is Industry  leading on every level.  TODAY.  With some pay raises, we are, just 2-3% above what we 
were prior to 9/11 (accounting for cost of living).   Not true with our Pilots.  Many work rule's also need to be reinstated as well.
We are constantly being told we are the best.  We are told the financials are because of our hard work.
The reality is that since we are NON union we should be paid ABOVE our competition.  This was always the case
with the Old Delta. Not so much anymore.  
The fact is that executives and Pilots are at pre-BK levels and then some.
Not so much for the rank and file. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

you need to read some of the pilot specific forums. airlinepilotcentral has a thread with over 10,000 pages.

You would be hard-pressed to find any DL pilots who believe they are as well paid as they were before 9/11.

I appreciate your desire to want to be higher paid.

But look at the competition. DL employees do very well compared to their legacy carrier peers. WN is the gold standard for high pay in the airline industry and they are stuck in negotiations with the company showing no signs they are going to increase their pay.

The alternative is to seek a union which would mean you have to go thru the multi-year negotiations that is typical in the airline industry and you would very likely give up a lot of what you have now.

Speak out to the company. They listen and if they don't, you absolutely have the right to organize if you believe that will deliver a better solution.

Like Kev, I respect your opinion as an active employee who will vote.

all you have to do is convince a majority of your coworkers.

and then look at your peers and see how much of the record profits their company's are generating.

 

[swamt]

Looks like AA beat Delta's Q profit numbers.  My, My, that was quick.  I guess I was wrong WT.  It didn't take the same amount of time out of BK as Delta.  It took alot freakin shorter time frame.

 

[Kev3188]

 

Many including myself aren't interested in Delta "raising salaries faster than any".  What most of us like
to see is Industry  leading on every level.  TODAY.  With some pay raises, we are, just 2-3% above what we 
were prior to 9/11 (accounting for cost of living).   Not true with our Pilots.  Many work rule's also need to be reinstated as well.
We are constantly being told we are the best.  We are told the financials are because of our hard work.
The reality is that since we are NON union we should be paid ABOVE our competition.  This was always the case
with the Old Delta. Not so much anymore.  
The fact is that executives and Pilots are at pre-BK levels and then some.
Not so much for the rank and file.

Amen.

The pilot & dispatcher groups have what they do because they actually get to negotiate it. You & I do not.

The false fronts masquerading as "employee involvement teams" can't help us, either.

 

[700UW]

Multi-Year?
 
Funny the DALAPA and DL reached their last CBA pretty fast.

 

[metopower]

baba i wish that your assesment was true. I do not make what i made as a 767 capt. in 2001 now as a 777 capt today. And i was a checkairman at the time. Just the facts and that is w2 to w2 .Add in profit sharing and it changes the equation. Kev ..I must remind you that Dalpa did not negotiate the last contract it was a proposal by the company that was accepted not negotiated . just the facts.

 

[Kev3188]

Fair enough, but the fact remains that you work rules the company can't just change (or apply inconsistently) on a whim. 
 
And if they do? You have an actual mechanism to seek recourse. Baba & I do not. 
 
P.S. I think you know how I feel about PS, how it's distributed, and how an different method would really "change the equation" for so many of our co-workers, so I won't get back into that again.

 

[BABABOOY]

baba i wish that your assesment was true. I do not make what i made as a 767 capt. in 2001 now as a 777 capt today. And i was a checkairman at the time. Just the facts and that is w2 to w2 .Add in profit sharing and it changes the equation. Kev ..I must remind you that Dalpa did not negotiate the last contract it was a proposal by the company that was accepted not negotiated . just the facts.

Thanks for sharing.  I appreciate it. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

Looks like AA beat Delta's Q profit numbers.  My, My, that was quick.  I guess I was wrong WT.  It didn't take the same amount of time out of BK as Delta.  It took alot freakin shorter time frame.

wrong. AA on a net basis made less than $75M more despite being a much larger airline.

AA's operating pre-tax margin was 12.8%. DL's margin was 14.9%. WN's was even higher.

of the big 4 carriers, WN's operating margin was highest followed by DL, AA, and then UA.

if you'd like to look at absolute numbers instead of percentages, then DL is and likely Always will beat WN since DL is considerable larger.

I would presume you would prefer to look at margins/percentages. It's the only rational way to compare the performance of different sized companies.
 

Amen.

The pilot & dispatcher groups have what they do because they actually get to negotiate it. You & I do not.

The false fronts masquerading as "employee involvement teams" can't help us, either.

 
again, the notion that because Airlines are making Money now entitles labor to collect huge paydays just won't happen - union or non-union.

There were no snapback clause in any of the BK proceedings.

Further, Airlines that have profit sharing intend to link significant increases in pay to the company's performance. like it or not, but at risk compensation means the company doe'sn't have to go thru BK in order to unwind high labor costs. When 10% of DL employee compensation comes from profit sharing and a similar amount is likely at WN, there is absolutely room to make hay while the sun shines.

 

baba i wish that your assesment was true. I do not make what i made as a 767 capt. in 2001 now as a 777 capt today. And i was a checkairman at the time. Just the facts and that is w2 to w2 .Add in profit sharing and it changes the equation. Kev ..I must remind you that Dalpa did not negotiate the last contract it was a proposal by the company that was accepted not negotiated . just the facts.

absolutely.

and another reminder that PMDL pilots lost their pensions to the PBGC as did ALL US and UA groups. all other DL, NW, and AA employees have FROZEN pensions. Even if the total amount will eventually be paid out the same, every one of the airline's pension rules are far more generous.

 

[swamt]

wrong. AA on a net basis made less than $75M more despite being a much larger airline.

AA's operating pre-tax margin was 12.8%. DL's margin was 14.9%. WN's was even higher.

of the big 4 carriers, WN's operating margin was highest followed by DL, AA, and then UA.

if you'd like to look at absolute numbers instead of percentages, then DL is and likely Always will beat WN since DL is considerable larger.

I would presume you would prefer to look at margins/percentages. It's the only rational way to compare the performance of different sized companies.
 
 
again, the notion that because Airlines are making Money now entitles labor to collect huge paydays just won't happen - union or non-union.

There were no snapback clause in any of the BK proceedings.

Further, Airlines that have profit sharing intend to link significant increases in pay to the company's performance. like it or not, but at risk compensation means the company doe'sn't have to go thru BK in order to unwind high labor costs. When 10% of DL employee compensation comes from profit sharing and a similar amount is likely at WN, there is absolutely room to make hay while the sun shines.

 
absolutely.

and another reminder that PMDL pilots lost their pensions to the PBGC as did ALL US and UA groups. all other DL, NW, and AA employees have FROZEN pensions. Even if the total amount will eventually be paid out the same, every one of the airline's pension rules are far more generous.

NOT wrong. I read where Delta's profit was 1.4 billion.  AA's profit was 1.5Billion.   Did it really hurt you that bad not to post SWA's margin of 16.3%?  Hmmmmm...

 

[WorldTraveler]

doesn't hurt me at all to post whatever WN achieved. I can live with facts.

I simply didn't know WN's operating margin. Thanks for posting it. and yes WN's operating margin was about a 1/2% higher than DL's and the largest of the big 4. congrats.

I did notice that DL's ROIC was above WN's.... saw that comparison somewhere. Perhaps you can find the numbers and post them for me.

And again, I have repeatedly said that there was every expectation that AAL would post a higher profit in pure dollars because AAL is a larger company.

By the same token, DL is a larger company than WN. I guess Í now have your permission to say that DL posts a larger profit than WN since DL is a larger company.

As Kev very aptly said a few days ago, it is absolutely great that we are now discussing who has the highest margin when practically the entire industry is above 10% operating margins.

That is just incredible.

The employees do need a few bones thrown to them.... I suspect in the case of DL, UA, and WN that will come largely via profit sharing.

Those who remember the last big profit cycle of the airline industry in the late 1990s (when DL had the highest profit margin of any airline in the US and UA recorded the highest total profit) will remember that unions demanded huge pay raises. The battle cry of UA's pilots was something to the effect of squeezing the goose that lays the golden egg.

A few short years later, UA was in BK and the "pattern bargaining" that ensued resulted in billions of dollars in lower wages.

I don't think airline mgmt. teams forget what happened and certainly don't have any desire to do anything like it again.

Labor can and should make incremental gains - not unlike the 2-3% increases that wnmech noted but with the biggest part of compensation increases coming via "at risk" compensation such as profit sharing.

We, of course, will see how it all plays out but I expect that labor will make small but steady gains instead of huge increases.

The fundamentals of the industry are strong which should allow for profitability on a sustained basis and perhaps at worse breakeven should a major downturn occur.

 

[700UW]

http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL2N0PZ27X20140724
 
NEW YORK, July 24 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc has severed a multi-year contract with BP to exchange refined fuels from Delta's Trainer refinery for more jet fuel, the company said on Thursday.

 

[700UW]

Delta Air Lines Declares Quarterly Dividend
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-air-lines-declares-quarterly-170000545.html

 

[WorldTraveler]

[background=#ffffff]NEW YORK, July 24[/size][/background][background=#ffffff] (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc has severed a multi-year contract with BP to exchange refined fuels from Delta's Trainer refinery for more jet fuel, the company said on Thursday. [/size][/background]
[/quote]

I would bet that BP wasn't willing to be a part of buying Trainer's refined products if it couldn't also sell crude.

I would also bet that DL is comfortable signing its own contracts for uptake and output at this point.

DL has also chartered a tanker to bring crude to Trainer
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-refining-arm-charters-jones-195019935.html

 

[700UW]

And DL's main Alliance Partner's posts a loss:
 

 
Air France-KLM Group reported a first-half net loss of €614 million ($827 million), narrowed from a net loss of €799 million reported for the same period in 2013.
 
The group also narrowed its first-half operating loss to €207 million, more than halving the €448 million loss reported for the year-ago period.