Delta pilots say he! no ...

[Redbone]

Fragmentation is what put Dal, Ual, and AA on the international map.

Dal's European Div. (x Pan Am's Atlantic Div. and Shuttle is the money maker, along with absorbing Eastern's share of Atlanta) all due to fragmentation.

Ual's Asia, Heathrow, Latin America all due to PAA.

AA Heathrow (TWA), Latin America (Eastern, formerly Braniff)

US Shuttle (Eastern)

NWA is the only remaining original Flag carrier still in tact.

 

[luv2fly]

Luv2fly,

I never reveal a source when something is told to me in confidence. To do so would violate their trust and confidence, which I will never do.


Maybe, maybe not. Is it being discussed by the financial community and the "heavy hitters"? Absolutely!


Regards,

USA320Pilot

But USA 320, if it is public knowledge and being discussed by the financial community and "heavy hitters", then it should be readily verifiable. Otherwise it is nothing more than speculative.

 

[IMisstheAladdinTrays]

But USA 320, if it is public knowledge and being discussed by the financial community and "heavy hitters", then it should be readily verifiable. Otherwise it is nothing more than speculative.

You are good at that yourself!

 

[ClueByFour]

What else is Delta ALPA going to say? They have a larger widebody fleet that they do not want to share with US Airways pilots, the merger plan calls for a 10% reduction in ASM's, and US Airways pilots have more tenure. Even though US Airways says there would be no pilot furloughs I believe there would be short-term stagnation for the Delta pilot group.

They won't be sharing them. See "career expectations."

However, would the Delta pilots change there tune if the company is fragmented, which is becoming increasingly likely? Would they be upset if instead of being offered job with ALPA seniority integration procedures due to the merger or instead being offered preferential hiring, like Delta offered the Pan Am pilots in their framgentation?

That's funny. The DL folks seem to have a backbone--I don't think the same song and dance that got the weaklings at AAA to fold is going to work on that crowd, although I'm sure you will try.

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy,

With all due respect, when negotiating a joint CBA does the Joint Negotiating Committee obtain a Tentative Agreement (TA)?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Luv2fly,

Here are the facts: Delta is bankrupt, the creditor's and bankruptcy judge control its destiny, US Airways has shown an ability to get large IB’s to fund a merger, other companies are discussing M&A activity, the DOJ may require divestitures to get a deal done, and now you’re getting reports in the media and by analysts that Delta could have its identity changed.

For example, Motley Fool writer Tim Beyers said, “With each passing day, it becomes increasingly likely that Delta Air Lines, the nation's third-largest carrier, will soon be no more,†not me!

If it makes you feel better to say my comments are “speculative†so be it. However, as I indicated there have been reports that people involved in Delta’s “formal reorganization†believe a fragmentation of the company is another option and in my opinion, Delta ALPA is providing more reason for that type of corporate transaction to proceed.

I hope the “backbone†that ClueByFour refers to does not cause you and many of your colleagues to become unemployed, but that is your choice not mine.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[delta777]

This was Mr. Lee Moak's response to LCC's revised offer,



January 11, 2007


Dear Fellow Pilot,


As merger news and rumors continue to circulate, I want to take this opportunity to provide you with an update on activities surrounding the US Airways' hostile takeover attempt. On November 21, 2006, I wrote:

"I want to assure you that your union is reviewing this hostile takeover attempt in terms of what it could mean to the long-term best interests of the Delta pilots . . . Should this merger be as misguided and as poor an idea as I currently believe it to be, then I will deploy every available resource to stop it."

In very short order, it became abundantly clear that the proposed merger was flawed in many aspects and, overall, a bad idea-bad for our passengers, bad for the communities we serve, and bad for employees. Further, Parker's plan is simply not credible, and with each passing day the credibility of that plan fades further. Two weeks ago, Parker definitively stated that he had no intention of increasing his offer. Yesterday, he increased his offer, while at the same time reaffirming his "plan" for no "frontline" employee furloughs. But on the same day, Parker's number two man was openly discussing additional divestitures beyond those originally disclosed to quell antitrust concerns that US Airways claims don't exist in the first place. With divestitures come job losses. Make no mistake-Parker's plan will result in thousands of job losses regardless of Parker's empty promises.

As most of you know by now, yesterday US Airways announced that they would increase their offer while also stating that the "offer is set to expire on Feb. 1, 2007 unless there is affirmative creditor support for commencement of due diligence . . . as well as the postponement of Delta's hearing on its Disclosure Statement scheduled for Feb. 7, 2007." The offer would increase the debt of the combined corporation by an additional one billion dollars, a move that is already drawing concern from industry analysts. Further, none of the major faults in the original plan were addressed including antitrust concerns, massive route overlap, actual job losses and, importantly, the provisions of the Delta Pilot Working Agreement (PWA).

Parker mistakenly believes that he can somehow magically overcome the scope protections built into our contract and to date refuses to discuss the contract in anything other than superficial terms. The Delta PWA is a part of Delta's Plan of Reorganization and must be a part of any such plan of reorganization. Parker, however, simply ignores the implications of our contract. For example, in response to just a single issue, he has been quoted as saying, "We don't know enough about the contract and how this clause came to be." Pilot contract issues will not go away regardless of how much money Parker throws at this merger. For example, our contract:

o Prohibits a "code-sharing" relationship between Delta and US Airways that is critical to the success of the merger plan.

o Dictates that, in the event of a merger, our contract is the controlling document and all provisions remain in force, provisions which prevent many planned US Airways synergies.

o Provides that the amount of Delta flying cannot decrease during a merger transition period until full operational integration, a period that would take years.

o States that Delta pilots must fly any aircraft configured for over 76 seats. US Airways would be prohibited from operating an entire portion of their fleet of aircraft as a result of this provision.

o Most importantly, the Delta pilot contract is binding on any successor or affiliate, including a transaction where Delta is bought by another carrier or holding company subject to the provisions of Letter of Agreement 7, Bankruptcy Protection Covenant.

The Delta pilots will not change any provision of our contract in order to facilitate the hostile takeover of our company.

I want to caution you about the many press reports you will read and see in the coming days and weeks regarding both the US Airways' hostile merger attempt and any other industry merger activity. I want to make this perfectly clear. Delta remains committed to emerging from bankruptcy as a stand alone airline, and the Delta MEC shares that commitment. Nothing will distract us from the task at hand.

Parker's hostile takeover attempt represents a clear and present danger to the careers of all Delta employees. As such, the MEC remains totally committed and one hundred percent focused on one thing-the death of the US Airways' merger attempt. To that end, at this week's MEC meeting in Washington D.C., the MEC unanimously passed a resolution committing $15 million dollars to the effort to ensure that Parker fails. Additionally, for the next several weeks, a substantial portion of all MEC operations will shift to Washington as we concentrate our efforts on Capitol Hill and the financial markets. Parker will soon come to realize that we cannot be ignored, that we are not going away, and that the Delta pilots will not be "synergized."

Fraternally,

Lee Moak, Chairman

Delta MEC

 

[BoeingBoy]

BoeingBoy,

With all due respect, when negotiating a joint CBA does the Joint Negotiating Committee obtain a Tentative Agreement (TA)?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

A little sloppy with the cut and paste responses?

I think you'll find I posted nothing in this thread to warrant that reply.....

Jim

 

[luv2fly]

You are good at that yourself!

You are correct and thank you for the compliment. I do speculate often. In fact, I would venture to guess that better than 90% of what is posted on these boards is pure speculation.
The problem comes in when the speculation is presented as a matter of fact with no real evidence to support.

 

[USCREW]

The problem comes in when the speculation is presented as a matter of fact with no real evidence to support.

But that's the fun of it all! Who cares about evidence?

 

[luv2fly]

Luv2fly,


For example, Motley Fool writer Tim Beyers said, “With each passing day, it becomes increasingly likely that Delta Air Lines, the nation's third-largest carrier, will soon be no more,â€￾ not me!


USA320Pilot[/font]

A prime example of what I was talking about. The title of the article you reference is entitled Is Delta nearly done?
That article references the likelyhood that Delta will most likely not exit BK as a stand alone carrier. You know what? I agree. It is my opinion that Doug Parker will be successful in setting off a new round of industry consolidation, and that he will convince DL's creditors that due diliegence should take place.
What you left out is that this article also discussed the possibility of a DL/NW merge or even possibly a DL/UA merge.
The article, however, is not relevant in the matter you suggest as a reference to DL's fragmentation. In fact, the word fragmentation is not mentioned at all. So yes sir, I believe that is all you!

But that's the fun of it all! Who cares about evidence?

I assume you were the first to be asked to leave during jury selection?
Seriously though, speculating is fun. I agree.
IMO, speculation turns into lying when it is presented as fact. The lying part is the problem, unless you enjoy that as well.

 

[USCREW]

I assume you were the first to be asked to leave during jury selection?
Seriously though, speculating is fun. I agree.
IMO, speculation turns into lying when it is presented as fact. The lying part is the problem, unless you enjoy that as well.

Well jury duty is BORING <_< and I don't think that all the speculating and outright lying on this board can be used as evidence in court, otherwise you and I would be *STAR* witnesses.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Parker will soon come to realize that we cannot be ignored, that we are not going away, and that the Delta pilots will not be "synergized."

Fraternally,

Lee Moak, Chairman

Delta MEC

I think Moak is about to be edge-a-mucated by $10 Billion and a team of Harvard M&A lawyers.

 

[757inthebarrel]

My boss's Brother is a Sr (as in VERY senior) DL pilot and in speaking with him, I get the distinct sense that the DL pilots are prepared to take the "Hit" and risk fragmentation rather then surrender one dime more either through loss of seniority or loss of pay.

They seem to be a more resolute bunch the US ALPA. They have a relatively strong position with which to bargain and I think they're prepared to ride until the ride stops, just so long as it isn't Tempe.

Shack. DALPA sat through Parker's presentation to the creditors and know exactly what a bad deal it will be for all DL employees. $15 million war chest to fight it so far. All options on the table. Not sure what the official position on a DL/NWA merger is but most think any carrier would be a better partner than US due to the massive overlap.

Those that slam Moak have no idea who they are dealing with.

 

[Flufdriver]

Shack. DALPA sat through Parker's presentation to the creditors and know exactly what a bad deal it will be for all DL employees. $15 million war chest to fight it so far. All options on the table. Not sure what the official position on a DL/NWA merger is but most think any carrier would be a better partner than US due to the massive overlap.

Those that slam Moak have no idea who they are dealing with.

Yep, ol Moakie lead you and your group in BK marching around like a bunch of clones for a contract...then he had all of you accept losing the old pension in the new contract. I think Parker knows who he's dealing with....

 

[ClueByFour]

I think Moak is about to be edge-a-mucated by $10 Billion and a team of Harvard M&A lawyers.

Doubt it. No codeshare. No reduction in block hours. No -175s or -190s flown by anyone not on the DL list. Sounds like a buzzkill to me.