Delta loads new DAL flights

[WorldTraveler]

it is about how DL manages to win in the marketplace.

I am aware of what the DOJ said.

I'm still waiting to still what DL does about it.

Further, I'm still perplexed how swamt can keep a straight face when telling DL that they won't win despite the fact that WN spent years and years in court fighting to be able to serve DAL.

DL will win in the marketplace; if they choose not to pursue the issue with the DOJ it is because they have a plan B that they intend to pursue.

 

[eolesen]

"Winning."  Paging Charlie Sheen.  I'm sure AA and Southwest are really mortified of all the "market based plans for growth" Delta has up their sleeve.  You honestly couldn't make this stuff up!

No kidding.

I also have a version of this with WT's face on it, but the last time I posted his photo, he went and reported me... so I'll just have to pass it around privately...

 

[robbedagain]

it is about how DL manages to win in the marketplace.

I am aware of what the DOJ said.

I'm still waiting to still what DL does about it.

Further, I'm still perplexed how swamt can keep a straight face when telling DL that they won't win despite the fact that WN spent years and years in court fighting to be able to serve DAL.

DL will win in the marketplace; if they choose not to pursue the issue with the DOJ it is because they have a plan B that they intend to pursue.

 
yep they won N. Tx when they yanked the hub out of DFW  
 
we are still long awaiting the so called legal challenge links for when you said DL would file against the DOJ/DOT bec of DCA and LGA   might as well as in DAL now too

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

I imagine it's pretty easy to grow LatAm ops by 20% when you've got barely anything there to begin with.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Further, this move further increases the likelihood that there will be a legal challenge to Wright and its revisions. 

The way I see it there are 2 ways to translate a sentence like this:
 
1)  WT speaking to Spectator & Chucky:  don't worry, this is all a part of the master plan for DL's eventual world domination.
2)  WT speaking to WT*:  there is no way I can admit I am ever wrong. 
* disclaimer:  sometimes it is hard to tell the difference between scenario 1 and 2

 

[WorldTraveler]

there is no way that what has happened at DFW and DAL could ever pass th e legal test of an OUTSIDE challenge.  It isn't hard to get a legal agreement signed off with the gov't if you carve up the market between two players and then get the gov't to sign off on it because every one wasn't interested.
 
Maybe DL will challenge it and maybe they won't.
 
but no one has yet to demonstrate how where we are with N. Texas aviation is anywhere close to what exists in any other city in the US.
 
As much as the DOJ can argue otherwise, perpetuating a system that blocks the free movement of airlines to/from airports is a lose/lose for consumers and someone is bound to challenge it.
 
It also doesn't change that the whole purpose of any of these asset transfers is to allow competitors to win in the marketplace.  DL has a proven track record of doing that.  AA has lost enormous revenue to DL over the past 10 years.. it doesn't matter one iota that AA was in BK.  IF their legacy mgmt was half interested in preserving the enterprise, they would have done more to protect and defend their revenue... but they didn't.
 
WN hasn't grown in any of DL's key hubs to anything other than their token presence.  As much as swamt wants to argue about the connecting traffic being not the issue at ATL, WN/FL is about 20% smaller than they were when the merger was announced IN LOCAL MARKET SHARE
 
Feel free to gloat today if you want.
 
I am certain the access issue at DAL/DFW has reached a final conclusion and I am also certain that DL will achieve its goals in N. Texas.
 
Further, the sooner all of the new flights get started on other carriers, the sooner we can see how accurate I have been about the revenue impact all of this will have on AA.
 
As for size in Latin America, DL for Feb was 55% of the size of AA.  IN contrast, AA's size relative to DL in the Pacific was 29%.  DL's entire int'l system is about 10% larger than AA's even after the merger.
 
UA's int'l system is about 10% larger than DL's.
Thru the merger, AA became the largest domestic carrier among the big 3 but opened up a huge amount of competition including the slot divestitures at DCA and LGA and the loss of the ability to serve DAL.

AA paid a very high price for the merger and the chances are very high that it will be shown that AA didn't solve its strategic needs as a result of it.

 

[eolesen]

Fixed your post:

there is no way that what has happened at DFW and DAL could ever pass the legal test of an OUTSIDE challenge.  It isn't hard to get a legal agreement signed off with the gov't if you carve up the market between two players and then get the gov't to sign off on it because every one wasn't interested.
 
Deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect.

deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect.. 
 
Deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect.. deflect deflect deflect deflect..deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect .

WN deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect DL's deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect .  Deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect at ATL, WN/FL deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect DEFLECT DEFLECT DEFLECT
 
Feel free to gloat today if you want.
 
I am certain the access issue at DAL/DFW has reached a final conclusion and I am also certain that DL will achieve its goals in N. Texas.
 
Further, the sooner all of the new flights get started on other carriers, the sooner we can see how accurate I have been about the revenue impact all of this will have on AA.


As for deflect deflect deflect, DL deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect AA.  IN deflect, AA's deflect deflect deflect DL deflect deflect deflect deflect.  DL's entire deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect AA's deflect deflect deflect.
 
UA's deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect DL's.

Deflect deflect deflect, AA deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect DCA and LGA deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect DAL.

AA deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect AA deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect .

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

there is no way that what has happened at DFW and DAL could ever pass th e legal test of an OUTSIDE challenge.  It isn't hard to get a legal agreement signed off with the gov't if you carve up the market between two players and then get the gov't to sign off on it because every one wasn't interested.
 
Maybe DL will challenge it and maybe they won't.
 

 
As much as I try to have an open mind and accept your premise, I just can't.
It would take a willing suspension of disbelief for me to accept that for over 30+ years nobody has ever thought to challenge the legality of the Wright Amendment.  Especially in the U.S.A.

 

[eolesen]

Oh, there were attempts, but each time, Congress deferred to the Texas delegation in both houses, and their constituents wanted it left alone.

That's why it took amending the act to add states to the perimeter (Shelby to add KS, MS, and AL in 1997; Bond to add MO in 2005). At least two of those states will likely lose service now that the perimeter is being eradicated (DAL-JAN is already announced as being cut, and I'd be surprised if DAL-ICT remains).


Feel free to find a loophole to exploit. 40 years of fighting over the previous iteration helped close a lot of them...

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-109publ352/html/PLAW-109publ352.htm

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Maybe DL will challenge it.

...I'm willing to wait and see how it all plays out but I would be absolutely shocked if the settlement agreement is allowed

...DL is absolutely working the halls of Congress to push its cause

...WN does not deserve the privileged status it has

 

[robbedagain]

glenn   that very very last statement  wt made on dec 6 2012   at 407pm   that statement...   wn does not deserve the privileged status it has
 
 just to be clear here  and understanding here is  Only Delta deserves that privilege status  but no one else  

 

[WorldTraveler]

Glenn,
thanks for noting the CONDITIONAL nature of what I have written.  Never have I said that DL would definitely take any action.
 
E is absolutely right that Congress has repeatedly deferred to the Texas delegation who has repeatedly attempted to protect the interests of AA and WN.  And there absolutely have been parties OUTSIDE of TEXAS that have recognized the whole Wright amendment mess and its multiple revisions is anti-competitive and protectionistic.
 
Let's also be clear that there never was much incentive for those outside of AA and WN to challenge it because no one else really had much interest in trying to undo a system that favored AA and WN. 
 
Now that the WA has fallen (or will to the extent that DAL becomes a true nationwide airport) there are a whole lot of parties that will ask the question how Texas managed to create a two-tier airport system in one city that limits competition.  WN has been trying desperately to get itself established with a nationwide presence using every possible inch of available DAL real estate so that no challenge can result in them losing any flights - but the system is patently anti-competitive and the fact that it exists no where else and was negotiated by two Texas companies working with the government should raise more than a few eyebrows.
 
I have to say I truly get a kick out of reading how people are working so hard to try to defame me in these posts while failing to appreciate that it is AA and WN who will aggressively compete against each other and there will be blood drawn. 
 
Yes, DL wants into the market and the story is still not fully written, but DAL was a growth opportunity for DL.  It is the backbone and bread and butter for both AA and WN. 
 
To somehow argue that DL loses is nonsensical when the reality is that AA is by far the biggest loser in anything that happens and WN will lose if there are any legal processes filed by anyone that challenge the whole carveup of the N. Texas market.
 
and as much as E wants to think my post is all distraction, he and others fail to recognize that the whole stated reason for the AA-US merger was to become more competitive with DL and UA.  E might have his own reasons but the creditors and AA and US execs all said the same thing.
 
The fact that AA is still the #3 international carrier and their current route system still consists of alot of money losing routes and ones that are tied to the Star Alliance bodes for alot of shrinkage before real growth can occur.
 
Given that AA's price for becoming the largest domestic airline was to give up the equivalent of AA's entire presence at DCA, about 10% of LGA, and access to DAL that AA could have had, it is simply deception to argue other than that the merger took a far higher toll on AA/US than any other merger and the combined effect of all of the new competition will have an enormously negative effect on AA.
 
DL might lose the opportunity to add a few flights from DAL in the short term.  The cost to AA will be far, far higher and it will fundamentally be ingrained in AA's network forever. 

 

[eolesen]

I have to say I truly get a kick out of reading how people are working so hard to try to defame me in these posts while failing to appreciate that it is AA and WN who will aggressively compete against each other and there will be blood drawn.

Yet in the WN forum, you just said that WN isn't an effective competitor.

So which is it?...

 

[robbedagain]

he cant keep his story straight!   either there be blood drawn and be competitive  or wn is not an effective competitive....

 

[swamt]

And Delta did so well at competing with AA at DFW that they pulled down from 240 flights from DFW to 20 flights in (I think 2004).  WT claims that this was ONLY taking the "connecting flights" out,  BUT, when an airline removes 200+ flights over time does not mean they just removed the "connecting flights".    They retreated from AA's hub plain and simple.  Just like VX is trying to do right now from DFW.  VX (if they are awarded the gates here at DAL) will more than likely be gone within 5 years, my prediction...