Delta loads new DAL flights

[WorldTraveler]

you two (or you too) are free to cite examples.

 

[swamt]

Hey WT, SWA will not lower fares below their cost.  This is why SWA has been profitable for well over 43 years straight.  And SWA has and will continue to lower fares on a long term basis.  SWA has been doing it for decades, get a clue man.  You keep posting BS that is completely false.  It may not happen at every single airport or city for long term but it has in fact lasted long term at a very high percentile of the new markets SWA enters and maintains.   You need to do a little research before spouting off.   But pls keep posting, your doing a great job...

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, I get that they won't lower fares below cost. 
 
but despite what you want to believe, they cannot lower fares to the levels necessary to stimulate traffic.... they don't have the cost advantage anymore in order to do so. 
 
They can lower fares at DAL low enough for a short period to shift demand and take a loss doing so but they can't lower fares on a long term basis to the levels they once did.
 
Herb's WN is dead. 
 
it's DOT data... it's not BS.
 
I've done my research.
 
Too bad the DOJ didn't do theirs. 

 

[robbedagain]

just for example of low airfares   bwi-mco  for say the week of august 18    to say 22 or 23 
 
for a family of 4 people,  take one senior   one kid aged btwn 12 and 16   and 2 adults 16 to 64
 
the airfare is 1276.00 
 
compare to delta which wants over 1400   and us/aa want over 1400
 
 
to me that is a good example of lower fares

 

[WorldTraveler]

robbed,
you can find an example here or there to make any point.
 
DOT data exists to show the entire picture of all passengers who fly that route.
 
Since WN flies that route but DL and AA do not, it isn't surprising that WN has seats available in a peak period while DL can make more money carrying passengers over their hub. 
 
AA/US may have similar fares but do so only because they codeshare on each other's flights.  Their res and inventory mgmt. systems are not integrated and thus the fares are not and won't necessarily be the same until IT integration is complete. 

 

[robbedagain]

or it could be this way due to the fact it includes all 3 of the dc area airports  in which  case wn and us both run nonstop out of dca  and ual does so out of iad  so there are factors 

 

[WorldTraveler]

all of the industry reservation systems and airline specific and pricing system allow for airport specific pricing even if some airports like DCA and IAD are sometimes priced the same.
 
Further, the "out the door" price to the consumer is a function of both the filed fares and the inventory settings which can be specific to each flight and can change with each sale. 
 
Given that you chose a date further in advance, you might find similar fares but as you get closer to departure, there will be differences in the price.
 
And BWI is usually not priced the same as IAD and DCA for non-leisure fares. 

 

[robbedagain]

i think that prices for leisure would be cheaper for an airport like bwi vs places like DCA and IAD  given the geographic location.   Now i cannot vouch for DAL and DFW  but i would imagine something similar would be like that there too

 

[swamt]

You are correct Robbed, fares are cheaper out of Dal compared to out of DFW to the same locations.  DFW just has a much larger cost to operate out of there.  Why else does VX and DL want to come to DAL?  Less cost to fly the very same routes, that's why...

 

[eolesen]

Yeah, not sure I agree with the cost assumption. The gas wells on the property at DFW have lowered the costs for the tenants over the past decade.

The interest in flying from DAL is probably a combination of prestige and perhaps some protectionism. DAL will always win over the business of the Park Cities professionals who want to be home from their day trips in time for dinner.

I think it's a failed premise where the rest of the Dallas catchment area is concerned, though.

With the new tollways and upgrades to other freeways around DFW, I'd wager the convenience factor is less of an advantage than it was 15 years ago. Someone from Plano or McKinney can probably be at DFW just as easily as they can be at DAL. The city has invested very little in Mockingbird Lane (four lane arterial with stoplights), and it's a mile either way from I-35 or the Tollway. It might add up to a savings of 10-15 minutes driving, hardly enough to make a huge difference for those already driving for 40 minutes, and personally, I'd rather just be on the freeway the whole way and not have to mess around with side streets.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DFW is a very cost efficient airport.
 
It's about competition between the two airports.  VX believes they are better off competing with WN instead of AA... I think they will find sledding will be a whole lot harder at DAL than it has been at DFW.... but they'll figure it out in time.
 
DAL is a more favorable airport to DFW than any other secondary airport is to the primary airport in another city and that is precisely why WN wants as much of its as possible - and itself to avoid competing with AA. 
 
It still doesn't change that AA and WN might have chosen to compete at only one of the airports to the exclusion of the other (in AA's case via the merger) but no other carrier, including DL can be forced by the government to pick or choose to serve DAL to the exclusion of DFW or vice versa.
 
Texas tried to convince the DOJ that DAL and DFW are mutually exclusive airports for carriers to serve but Federal law clearly says otherwise which is precisely why DL will push until it has access to both airports, just as it does at ORD and MDW. 
 
If UA decides to hold onto its DAL-IAH service, it too will prove to be a two airport airline for the Metroplex and will prove that the DOJ and Texas' ideas about DL not being able to serve DAL while also serving DFW are flawed.

 

[jimntx]

With the new tollways and upgrades to other freeways around DFW, I'd wager the convenience factor is less of an advantage than it was 15 years ago. Someone from Plano or McKinney can probably be at DFW just as easily as they can be at DAL. The city has invested very little in Mockingbird Lane (four lane arterial with stoplights), and it's a mile either way from I-35 or the Tollway. It might add up to a savings of 10-15 minutes driving, hardly enough to make a huge difference for those already driving for 40 minutes, and personally, I'd rather just be on the freeway the whole way and not have to mess around with side streets.

And, if you factor in the DAL area disadvantage that the major North-South alternate to Mockingbird--Inwood Road--has been chopped down to bedrock almost across all 4 lanes from Maple to Lemmon Avenue as they begin re-paving (actually, re-building) Inwood, it makes the traffic situation in the DAL area that much worse.

 

[eolesen]

DAL is a more favorable airport to DFW than any other secondary airport is to the primary airport in another city and that is precisely why WN wants as much of its as possible - and itself to avoid competing with AA.

Why is it any more favorable than LGA is to JFK?

There's really very little about DAL that positions it above DFW in my opinion, unless you happen to live in the Park Cities.

 

[jimntx]

Good point, E. I don't know a single New Yorker who choose JFK over LGA if a choice is to be had. Lord knows I don't choose JFK when traveling to/from New York. I would rather fly into EWR than JFK.

 

[WorldTraveler]

LGA is favorable because of location but, since it is restricted to basically short-haul domestic flights, JFK is the preferred airport for markets which
cannot be served from LGA>
 
DFW was/is the preferred airport for longhaul domestic markets but that is changing. 
 
DOT data shows that WN has half or more of the market to nearly every airport it serves from DAL.  Unlike at MDW vs ORD or BWI vs DCA, there is no evidence to support that DAL can't compete very effectively for half of the market to the cities that can be served from DAL.
 
Obviously, DFW will not lose its preferred status for int'l markets.