Translation: "You're right Kevin; you never said that."
a red card is a red card, and you know it.
You were called on the carpet because you demonstrated that you can’t keep your cool and focus on the subject under pressure…. And it doesn’t just extend to this forum….and you wonder why you have been marginalized and unable to implement the change that you very much could do if you were able to get along w/ people.
Great. Then start telling it. ALL of it.
I’m happy to allow the whole truth to be told and you can indeed be a part of painting the whole picture… but refusing to accept data on a topic where data really does tell the story because you don’t like the story the data says only further marginalizes you as an advocate for your cause
But hey, as part of the structural initiatives they discussed on the call, maybe they'll get a bunch of the red out after all, and you can go back to the DL you once knew and loved...
I’d far rather that the former RED individuals who haven’t done so figure out how to succeed and work in the system that they have been given, even if it isn’t what they asked for.
There are plenty of PMNW people who have moved up and into the ranks of DL… the notion that DL has isolated and cut off PMNW people because they are RED is merely an excuse from those who haven’t demonstrated that they know how to succeed and work in the system they have been given.
But sometimes you do need to use a little Visine to contain the problem.
But let’s carry on with the facts….
But wait… didn’t AS jump into a bruising fight w/ its rampers that resulted in massive outsourcing of their ramp? Doesn’t AS – with the IAM’s approval – have RRs, the very program you decry at DL?
In fact, DL has TWICE the percentage of mainline ramp workers that AS has and DL has no ramp union.
DL’s ramp workforce is larger than AS’ entire mainline labor force but that is another discussion.
You and Dawg like to point to the TOS at other carriers while failing to note the much lower percentage of the total workforce in those groups at those other airlines compared to DL which means you either 1. Are really just after yourself (since both of you are TOS) or 2. You expect to have the best of everything and you don’t understand that you can’t have it all, and can’t figure out how to find solutions that really represent the majority and not a privileged few.
IMO, FL didn't need to be included for the '13 chart, given their merger with WN. If they really needed someone else on there, B6 would've been an okay choice.
Won't happen, but it'd also be nice to see a graphic for both TOS, and the start and middle tiers as well, as that would tell more of the story....
FL might not be in your world but their largest workforce is at the same airport as DL’s.
The F/A example I used shows that what they bring home today is less now than what it was in '05, and the post BK recovery you're so quick to want to tout is not all that it seems.
Or you could accept that average compensation reflects what people really bring home, something you seem to want to throw in as a goal unless the data actually shows that data doesn't really help your cause as the MIT data does.
DL FAs had the highest average salary among the network in 2011, and DL has added far more FAs to its ranks over the past few years, meaning many DL FAs have lower salaries that are characteristic of new hire airline workers.
Glad you mentioned that NW FAs didn’t recover from the cuts made in BK… because the data does show that NW FA average salaries fell 27% in BK compared to 8% for DL FAs, one of the lowest average salary cuts for FAs among the legacy carrier FA groups in BK.
Apparently NOT having a union helped DL FAs retain their pay FAR BETTER than what having unions did for FAs at other airlines… and DL FAs have regained more pay since BK than any other legacy airline FA group.
But those are the uncomfortably true numbers that you have to admit DO tell why DL employees have no desire to be sucked into a labor-mgmt model that has resulted in bigger cuts in both pay and employee numbers than DL employees who supposedly have no protection.
That's good you have a vision and understand the challenges ahead. When you say build from on the ground up, that starts with the workers that the unions aspire to represent. As Bob has posted countless times, its hard to sell people on the value of the union when your non-union peers (jetBlue in the case of AA line mechanics) have substantially greater compensation, work rules, and other benefits. It seems to me that workers also need to feel apart of and connected to the union and see it as something more than just a payroll deduction and should get involved in the negotiations and hold their leadership accountable. To Bob's other point though at much like executives in this country, union leaders enjoy salaries 10-25x that of their rank and file along with considerable perks and lose touch with their members and are unwilling to engage in strikes or job action that could compromise their cushy positions. And I'll end by saying while I still don't see the value of representation, I respect that you do and have learned from the experiences and perspectives you have provided.
Josh
I challenged Kevin shortly after the merger was announced to use his considerable energies and talents to contribute to the new DL. DL mgmt gave Kevin opportunities to demonstrate whether he could work as a leader w/in their system but he fought back against the structure DL had established and has been marginalized since. People have come around Kev to help him improve his skills and abilities that would make him more marketable in any job market, but he pushed back and said he would rather pursue the strategy of confrontation within DL that his peers consistently say they want nothing to do with….
Someone may have all the skills and abilities in the world but if they can’t learn to work w/in the structure in which they have chosen to exist, they are rendered powerless – or have the choice of working independently where they need not interact w/ others.
Kev is a smart guy but four years after the merger – and even longer since he started posting against the evil enterprise that is DL – it is time for him to either prove that he is capable of doing something about the world in which he finds himself and doesn’t like or figure out how to work in that system and succeed.
By failing to do either, he is becoming increasingly marginalized and less able to make the contribution that he is capable of making.
Life allows u-turns and corrections. Now would be as good of a time as any for Kev to re-evaulate, retool, and redirect his efforts to make a positive impact - and work with the people who really would be more than happy to see him succeed at what matters to him.
