Delle's Jeopardy

twuer

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Jul 9, 2003
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Here's an interesting read. . .
(You can read the full article here on usaviation.)




At 2 Airlines, Management and Unions Focus on Cuts
By MICHELINE MAYNARD

Published: February 17, 2004


Unions and management at two troubled airlines are facing off over cuts that executives say are critical to their companies' survival.

At United Airlines, the battle is over reductions in health care benefits for 35,000 retired workers. Executives say the savings are necessary for the airline, the nation's second largest behind American Airlines, to secure federal loan guarantees and emerge from bankruptcy protection as planned later this year.

Meanwhile, US Airways, the country's seventh-largest carrier, wants a third round of concessions from its unions, on top of two granted while it was in bankruptcy. It sees the wage and benefit cuts as a major component in its drive to reduce its costs to the level of low-fare carriers.

The airlines are not being specific about how much they want from the unions, but both have drawn the ire of labor groups.

The anger is hottest at United, where flight attendants are leading a charge to stop the airline from carrying out its plans, laid out in a bankruptcy court motion last month, to have retirees pay more for medical coverage.

The Association of Flight Attendants contends that it cut a deal with United to protect the benefits of flight attendants who chose to take early retirement by July 1. About 2,500 left the airline last summer, presuming that their benefits were protected, the union said.

United, a unit of the UAL Corporation, maintains that there was no such contractual agreement, only a promise by its chief executive, Glenn F. Tilton, to avoid health care cuts unless "absolutely necessary."

In a court filing last week in Chicago, where United is based, the airline said it had always retained the option of asking the court to reduce retiree benefits, an action allowed under the federal bankruptcy code.

. . .


Despite the outcry, employees do not have much hope of stopping United, said Gary L. Chaison, professor at Clark University in Worcester, Mass. "Bankruptcy makes everything 'absolutely necessary,' " Professor Chaison said yesterday, referring to Mr. Tilton's comments.

He added that there was still plenty of room for bargaining but that he did not think the union could realistically keep the company from cutting retirees' benefits. Bankrupt companies, from steel makers to retailers, have frequently succeeded over the years to cut retirees' health care benefits, he said.

. . .

Union leaders initially resisted the airline's bid for a third round of cuts, declaring that "the concessions stand is closed." In response, the airline hired Morgan Stanley to find bidders for a series of major assets, including US Airways' East Coast shuttle and one of its three hubs, which include Pittsburgh and Charlotte, N.C., in addition to Philadelphia.
. . .


As at United, US Airways' unions may not have much chance of fighting off more concessions, if they hope to see their airline remain in operation. Said Professor Chaison: "I'd hate to be a union officer now, having said 'never' so many times."


So, looks like Delle is a day late and a dollar short. He might actually be the first man to bring down an "empire". Way to go Delle. Good job at protecting the profession!!!

Bring on the conspiracy theories boys. . .
 
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What, no responses from any amfa supporters?? Where's the big talk now fellas?

Figures, when the going gets tough the tough get going!!!
 
Just amazes me how it's all AMFA's fault. AMFA is negotiating with their hands tied behind their backs due to Bankruptcy. Oh I suppose that was AMFA's fault too.....
 
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Thrustfuljet said:
Just amazes me how it's all AMFA's fault. AMFA is negotiating with their hands tied behind their backs due to Bankruptcy. Oh I suppose that was AMFA's fault too.....
It was amfa's no vote that pushed UAL into bankruptcy. Oh what, did they forget to tell you that part??? Why do you think that no other amfa supporter is commenting on this post??????

Think about it. Delle lead the troops into battle has not taken the responsibility of the consequences. Sure, he's going to stand up now for the retirees because he knows that's what they expect him to do. The whole world is watching.

And you wonder why we want NO part of amfa as our bargaining unit!!!
 
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38 hits and still only one brave amfa supporter posts. What's wrong boys, don't know what to say to this one, can't find the words to defend it????

This is what we are fighting against!!!!!!!
 
twuer said:
38 hits and still only one brave amfa supporter posts. What's wrong boys, don't know what to say to this one, can't find the words to defend it????

This is what we are fighting against!!!!!!!
Maybe you sat there and hit it 38 times.

How come you wont respond on the AA mechanics pay vs CPI thread tough guy?
 
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Bob Owens said:
twuer said:
38 hits and still only one brave amfa supporter posts. What's wrong boys, don't know what to say to this one, can't find the words to defend it????

This is what we are fighting against!!!!!!!
Maybe you sat there and hit it 38 times.

How come you wont respond on the AA mechanics pay vs CPI thread tough guy?
I have Bob! How many times do you want me to respond??? I don't believe crap you say!!

You guys are soooo scared that it shows in your posts, or in the lack of your posts. You expect us to respond to your posts, respond to ours!!!!!
 
What, no responses from any amfa supporters?? Where's the big talk now fellas?

Figures, when the going gets tough the tough get going!!!


--------------------

AMFA - Making promises they can't keep!


--------------------

So your solution is to work for minimum wage so long as everyone keeps working. Well thats a great plan pretty soon unemployment will be zero and everyone in America will be making 24K a year.
In order for the AMT to make a decent wage like an electrician or carpenter you must fight for the best contract possible. If that means loosing jobs to maintain a standard of a professional then so be it. Those who loose will have to find other work and in time maybe come back to an industry they can be proud to be in.
It sounds like you are scared to fight but are willing to make what someone at a 7-11 makes so long as you keep working. That is the cowards way out. AMFA made promises and kept them. It was not the AMFA that caused the loss of jobs that was the companies decision to downsize thier workforce. Do you really believe that if the AMFA gave concessions there would have been no lay offs????? I think not.
The twu gave away the farm and we still got slammed with lay offs.
As I recall the twu was to give these concessions but no lay offs. well 3000 guys in the street later...
You my friend have smoked to much weed and are in another world. Put down the bowl and wake up. :blink:
Sign a card and vote for a union that will negotiate in your best interests. Not the interests of the company you work for or the unskilled majority that makes up your twu.
 
If I recall correctly, U.S.AIR people(IAM) voted "YES" to concessions. This "YES" vote was obtained after the concessions were voted down the first time. Even after giving in to concessions, U.S.AIR got the IAM to agree to even more concessions!
And now after coming out of bankruptcy, U.S.AIR management wants even more concessions from the IAM!

I would like to know. How is this AMFA's fault?
When is the IAM going to strike like they said they would?
 
TIME FOR CHANGE said:
If that means loosing jobs to maintain a standard of a professional then so be it


Time for a change,...............Do you really beleive in this? This to you is acceptable for any union to consider? That to me is not the role of any union, unless maybe AMFA? Is it AMFAs mentality to asume it is better to lose hundreds and keep ten? In your eyes and AMFA seyes, at least those 10 will still make a decent wage, but when those 10 dont survive the stress of keeping production, the company will only say.........we gave you a chance but you failed now we have no other course but to farm out the whole package.
But under the watchful eye of UNIONS designed to protect all not just a few, it is beter to give up a few concessions and keep as many jobs as possible, for the member still enjoys the benefit of insurance, vacation, retirement, where if we were all laid off as you would have us, no pay and no benefits
 
twuer said:
Bob Owens said:
twuer said:
38 hits and still only one brave amfa supporter posts. What's wrong boys, don't know what to say to this one, can't find the words to defend it????

This is what we are fighting against!!!!!!!
Maybe you sat there and hit it 38 times.

How come you wont respond on the AA mechanics pay vs CPI thread tough guy?
I have Bob! How many times do you want me to respond??? I don't believe crap you say!!

You guys are soooo scared that it shows in your posts, or in the lack of your posts. You expect us to respond to your posts, respond to ours!!!!!
Who negotiated the contract at UAL twuer???? NOT AMFA is right.

Who sold the membership down the river with 100% farmout??? NOT AMFA is right again.

Who is at fault for making incompetent business decisions that have run a once healthy airline into the ground. Again, its NOT AMFA.

You continue to lay blame at everyone but the company unions, the twu and the iam. The twu has brought NOTHING to the table but concessions for the last 20 years. The twu has done NOTHING but bring the Aircraft Maintenance Profession industry wide to its knees. The twu leadership will not lead, they will not strike, and they will fight, and the WILL NOT change . They only fight their own members that have tried to "change from within".

The facts are that concessions DO NOT save jobs. An airline with dishonest and corrupt management that lines its pockets while its lapdog unions beg for scraps is the problem. Its the major problem, and this is why AMFA will be our new bargaining agent.

My friends on layoff with NWA still believe a no concessions stance is the right choice. A career as a fully paid mechanic with full benefits is worth waiting for and worth fighting for.

A career as an OSM is not. Wake up.
 
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TIME FOR CHANGE said:
What, no responses from any amfa supporters?? Where's the big talk now fellas?

Figures, when the going gets tough the tough get going!!!


--------------------

AMFA - Making promises they can't keep!


--------------------

So your solution is to work for minimum wage so long as everyone keeps working. Well thats a great plan pretty soon unemployment will be zero and everyone in America will be making 24K a year.
In order for the AMT to make a decent wage like an electrician or carpenter you must fight for the best contract possible. If that means loosing jobs to maintain a standard of a professional then so be it. Those who loose will have to find other work and in time maybe come back to an industry they can be proud to be in.
It sounds like you are scared to fight but are willing to make what someone at a 7-11 makes so long as you keep working. That is the cowards way out. AMFA made promises and kept them. It was not the AMFA that caused the loss of jobs that was the companies decision to downsize thier workforce. Do you really believe that if the AMFA gave concessions there would have been no lay offs????? I think not.
The twu gave away the farm and we still got slammed with lay offs.
As I recall the twu was to give these concessions but no lay offs. well 3000 guys in the street later...
You my friend have smoked to much weed and are in another world. Put down the bowl and wake up. :blink:
Sign a card and vote for a union that will negotiate in your best interests. Not the interests of the company you work for or the unskilled majority that makes up your twu.

direct quotes from time for change. . .
If that means loosing jobs to maintain a standard of a professional then so be it.
and. . .

Sign a card and vote for a union that will negotiate in your best interests. Not the interests of the company you work for or the unskilled majority that makes up your twu.

Well there it is again!!!!!!!! We don't care about you as long as we get what we want.

Thank you for repeating the amfa creed for us!!

It was not the AMFA that caused the loss of jobs that was the companies decision to downsize thier workforce.

WRONG AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amfa held out and said NO and UAL went bankrupt just as predicted, and just as amfa knew they would if they said no. So don't give me that BS about it wasn't amfa's fault. That's exactly who's fault it was!


THESE QUOTES PROVE THE MINDSET OF AMFA!!!
ANOTHER ME FIRST ASSOCIATION


:down: :down: :down: :down: :down:
 
twuer, AMFA did was not the bargaining agent at UA until 7-14-2003. That was only 7 months ago.

AMFA at UA 7-14-2003

The IAM was the incumbent union when UA went into bankruptcy and the IAM was also the union responsible for the contract.

If you are saying AMFA was responsible at UA during the period prior to AMFA wining the election then you would also say that AMFA was responsible for the contract we currently have here at AA prior to our election???

You people make absolutely no sense what so ever. I do realize the TWU officers will loose their pay that they decided should not be cut like the rest of the membership but, look at the bright side, they will finally get to share in the sacrifice!!!
 
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Rusty said:
twuer, AMFA did was not the bargaining agent at UA until 7-14-2003. That was only 7 months ago.

AMFA at UA 7-14-2003

The IAM was the incumbent union when UA went into bankruptcy and the IAM was also the union responsible for the contract.

If you are saying AMFA was responsible at UA during the period prior to AMFA wining the election then you would also say that AMFA was responsible for the contract we currently have here at AA prior to our election???

You people make absolutely no sense what so ever. I do realize the TWU officers will loose their pay that they decided should not be cut like the rest of the membership but, look at the bright side, they will finally get to share in the sacrifice!!!
Rusty,
It is no big secret that amfa was on the property at the time of the bankruptcy. The IAM negotiated a restructuring agreement that called for a 6% pay reduction and kept thier scope clause in tact but amfa organizers took the position that a bankruptcy judge would treat them more fairly and they would end up in a better agreement. That is a fact. The workers bought into it and now they are where they are. AMFA became the bargaining agent within a very short time after the initial bankruptcy filing.

The same things that they did here last April and what they are currently doing is the same thing they did at UAL.

So, yes, I stand by my statement that amfa is to blame for the bankruptcy at UAL.
 
quote by twuer
The same things that they did here last April and what they are currently doing is the same thing they did at UAL.

So, yes, I stand by my statement that amfa is to blame for the bankruptcy at UAL.

I work with several AMFA supporters and most of them voted for the contract. I don't recall anybody pushing anybody one way or another. Unless you want to count the twu and company scare tactics.

I would like to see proof of your acusations, I believe now that you don't know what your talking about.
 
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