Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fatherabraham]

Seajay,

Thx for the update. Have read some of the Free Woody essays and find much truth within.
Were any of the CCC points of his sufficiently countered by our president and hand picked yes men?
Did the CCC boys offer apologies to crowd for ushering in our current leadership ?
Any signs anyone was swayed by points made ?
Got a feel which way the majority there would vote ?

FA

 

[Zone5]

To the YES folk:

B -Scale Revisited

ED 12 yr pay -E 190

New AA Cap $114.02

Current Jet Blue Cap - $151

2016 190 CAP Rate $147, which is also the AB320 F/O Rate in 2016. So take your pick, left seat in a 190 or right seat in a 320. The APA rep at the PHL road show stated they (APA) had to fight like hell just to get the 190 on "main line" and get the AB319 into the Group TWO category, AMR management wanted neither.

Ever hear the one about the two Captains discussing the latest contract in the crew room? The first guy says, "I don't know, I heard we're getting a nice big pay increase and all trips will leave late on Tuesdays and return early on Thursdays", the second guy says, "EVERY Tuesday!!!"


seajay

 

[traderjake]

Got a feel which way the majority there would vote ?

I flew two IRO trips this weekend.

Excluding me, 3 voted yes on the MOU and Recall, one will probably vote no on the MOU.

 

[Zone5]

Seajay,

Thx for the update. Have read some of the Free Woody essays and find much truth within.
Were any of the CCC points of his sufficiently countered by our president and hand picked yes men?
Did the CCC boys offer apologies to crowd for ushering in our current leadership ?
Any signs anyone was swayed by points made ?
Got a feel which way the majority there would vote ?

FA

The vibe I got, from the earlier crowd filing out, during the afternoon session and comments I heard afterward was that the MOU will pass.


seajay

 

[fatherabraham]

Seajay,

As usual I try to be brief, as there's always more words to add.
That said, I don't think a 2 year 10 month and 20 day B-scale is insignificant .
Then it's in a miserable catch up mode to reach JB current scale.
You OK with that? Recall back to your b-scale stint.
$36 times 35 months times 85 hours = $107,100

FA

 

[Pi brat]

To the YES folk:

B -Scale Revisited

ED 12 yr pay -E 190

New AA Cap $114.02

Current Jet Blue Cap - $151

FA,

What do you call the current E190 rates that would stay in effect until a new JCBA was reached and are not included if the C of C did produce returns? C, D, Z scale?

 

[Pi brat]

Lots of AF/Os talking about how they dictate JS procedures here. Maybe that's what started the problem.

 

[fatherabraham]

FA,

What do you call the current E190 rates that would stay in effect until a new JCBA was reached and are not included if the C of C did produce returns? C, D, Z scale?

Pi,

Understand that ALL recognize the CoC leverage strength lies in bargaining for a more acceptable contract ( or whatever letterS u wanna use ) now.

FA

 

[EastUS1]

The vagueness in writing the MOU was intentional .....

Indeed sir: "The vagueness..." For me...well...it stops right there, with no offence meant at all Breeze. I'm of the opinion that this will be voted in. People who've too-long baked in the desert without water will sometimes spend their last strength (scope/CoC/etc) chasing what appears to be a lovely oasis...only to discover it's nothing but a mirage. I'm equally of the opinion that adopting the instrument, as it's now written, will ultimately prove to be a serious mistake. All I can say is that I honestly and sincerely hope to be entirely wrong in my current assumptions (which has certainly happened before in my life) and that all will benefit from their choice to embrace it....period.

All we can individually do is call 'em the best that we see 'em, and this issue's no different there. Let's hope it all works out well for all concerned.

 

[EastUS1]

Whenever I have an east jumpseater I request no discussion about company/union issues.

That much doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me Ames. It is your aircraft command, and establishing basic rules of ettiquete shouldn't offend any reasonable person that's thumbing a lift.

 

[EastUS1]

Thank you for the correction, Mr "Master's Degree in Psychology". I guess that trumps my MBA.

Apparently so, at least in as much as the english language is concerned.

 

[EastUS1]

You and luvthe9 are screaming and crying as if EVERYONE is screwing you.

From what strange little corner of Fantasyland do you draw that from?...The same portion of the enchanted forest that's filled with "spartans" and "dire wolves"? The bulk of my most serious concerns involve the language, or lack thereof, within the instrument/MOU. I've, imo, very reasonable concerns that it will come back to bite a great many people here. I also believe more could had from tempe at this time, and that they'd negotiate further should this be voted down. How do those ideas in ANY way amount to "screaming and crying"?

Vote as you best see fit to do, but sheesh!...enough with the "porn" and generally mindless ravings...

 

[Zone5]

Seajay,

As usual I try to be brief, as there's always more words to add.
That said, I don't think a 2 year 10 month and 20 day B-scale is insignificant .
Then it's in a miserable catch up mode to reach JB current scale.
You OK with that? Recall back to your b-scale stint.
$36 times 35 months times 85 hours = $107,100

FA

Sure I remember the "B" scale (as I recall AMR invented it). I also know that ALL of us have been on our current "C" scale for the last ten years or so and I'm not "good" with any of it!

Rest assured that if I was "in charge" lots of things would be different in this world. But it is what it is and "new hire" pay has always sucked and always will compared to those who "stick it out", at least that's the theory, hasn't really worked out that way for me, but then I digress. If I were a twenty something "new hire", I would be looking where this merger might take me 10-15 years down the road (what....... to my 40's with another 20-25 years to go?) and "buck up" or go somewhere else if I deemed "a 2 year 10 month and 20 day B-scale" intolerable.


seajay

 

[nic4us]

As far as the SLI aspect of all this, according to the USAPA merger counsels' comments, the "data" from the THREE currently in use seniority lists (snapshot to be taken at the POR) will be turned into one list through negotiation and if necessary arbitration, there will be fences, the character of which is yet to be determined. The process to reach a JCBA and subsequent SLI is spelled out and is what it is. It doesn't sound to me that either the ALPA East-West TA or any input from AOL will be a part of the process and it is doubtful that they would be successful in forcing their way into the room or tossing a "wrench" into the proceedings via an injunction. There's that "Ripe Thing" again. Not to worry though Westies, once all the dust settles, you can "have at it".

seajay

I dot think AOL has any intention of being "part of the process".

However, I am fairly certain the West pilots will be!

 

[dca319]

Seajay,

As usual I try to be brief, as there's always more words to add.
That said, I don't think a 2 year 10 month and 20 day B-scale is insignificant .
Then it's in a miserable catch up mode to reach JB current scale.
You OK with that? Recall back to your b-scale stint.
$36 times 35 months times 85 hours = $107,100

FA

How does status quo beat the MOU?