Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Crzipilot]

Best post in years. the second mou was substantially better than the first. Still not great as IMHO not enough lump sum for back pay.

But

Keep shuttle flying
87 million over 6 years in improvements
Pay protection for downgrades
E190 captains get group 3 FO pay
There is probably more

I have no doubt the CLT reps played large part in holding the line and getting an improved document.

Need some more details on that 190 Capt pay. I.E. it states I believe you will be pay protected for that UNLESS you can hold that Grp III f/o slot. Sooooooooooooo if you bid 190 Capt instead of Grp III reserve F/O. YOU get the 190 book rates. If you look at the list I think the majority of 190 capts can hold Grp III f/o right now, So at least at the beginning it's not really pay protection.

In addition in the APA contract there is a move up clause type thing. When it's your turn to checkout, guess what, you are expected to take that Capt. position. Now you can defer that upgrade for 36 months, (with an additional 24 months if approved by Mgmt) but at the end of 36 months you moving up. So alot of guys that sit right seat for QOL looks like the most they will be able to do that is 5 yrs, at best.

this will go into play with the pay protection I would suppose, because the East side is all over the place with who sits where at what seniority. In 3-5 years alot of f/o's will have to become capt, and capts might get bumped down to f/o. That in turn will effect who can really hold Grp III f/o and who can't and who will "qualify" for the 190 pay protection, which is 122/hr or 2-3/hr less than current grp II capt.

The other 190 pay protection is if you get displaced down to that equipment, but that only lasts as long until you can hold position equal to what you were displaced from or higher than 190. It doesn't say same base, so I guess that might be system wide?

 

[3dtv]

THE PENSION A HUGE ISSUE, GIVE IT AWAY GARY WANTS IT'S USAPA LITIGATION STOPPED! MM!

Put the bottle down JJ, I mean MM.

 

[Zone5]

Sure Bean...I will start.

We know for sure that scab's last meaningful event will be hosting the vote on the MOU.

Then we know usacaba will go bye bye....

Then we know the Nic, being the only accepted system seniority list, will be used to integrate the pilots of AMR and LCC.

"We"? Amazing!, a broken "digital" record. Congratulations, you have finally made my ignore list on this board! It's not an easy accomplishment, very few have sunk so low, you now have achieved irrelevant status.


seajay

 

[Crzipilot]

Take a look at the easy to see side by side comparison of the just released information from the NAC.

Look down through all the contract provisions. Compare the east contract to the west contract, then compare that to the new contract.

With the exception of a few items. The west is moving backwards in many areas.

Would you like to talk about who had the worst contract in the industry? Look beyond pay rates. The west had some good things. This new contract is going to be cost neutral at best maybe even cost the west pilots money when netted out.

The only thing we are going to gain is usapa is dead and the Nicolau which we should have had 5 years ago.

Ok, so the west is at it's best contract it's ever had in the life of their airline. US is at it's worst. How would the landscape be different if the AWA paid decent rates and work rules through the past 15 years?

I don't think anyone has claimed that US contract (loa 93) has been good. But have claimed that through history AWA has trailed significantly vs other contracts.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Oops!...Negative votes for even that?...Sigh!...Must've offended some awesome AWA "spartans" or perhaps even "knights" who've "Fought with valor in many battles" in "war", said "war" purely in Fantasyland, of course. Aww...Heck!...Maybe even a few dreaded "dire wolves" here as well! Sigh!..."Sorry"....My bad.

Option #2? = GROW UP. It's never too late for even such as many of yourselves to at least consider doing so. Consder the benefits alone = No one need then properly and uncontrollably laugh at you.

All of you "Army" of leonidas..umm.."heroic" types...well: "Any 18 year young Private on the Line I've full respect for and proudly salute in these times." While you pathetic little AOL/AWA punks, I mean "heros", "spartans", "dire wolves", "Larry Potters" /etc/whatever your childish little fantasies currently are, and will always remain, nothing more than just pathetic little punks.

Enjoy your INCREDIBLY infantile, unimaginably arrogant and pathetically petty, little narcicisstic fantasies...and, within the context of my entire 6 decades of life, previously inconceivable stupidity, little AWA "heros". There of course, exists no larger world than your pathetic little " heroic spartan" selves, especially all of you who've "fought with valor in may battles" in supposed "war" : http://news.yahoo.co...-215054467.html

How ANY of your bunch isn't properly and utterly ashamed of your group's infantile BS must, I suppose, always remain a complete mystery.....Have/do ANY of you mighty AWA "spartans" even now, or have ever had a child of yours in the combat theater?

Your rants now sound just like the wonderful Rev. Fred Phelps.

Please for the love of all humanity get some help or return to your meds....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

 

[cleardirect]

Ok, so the west is at it's best contract it's ever had in the life of their airline. US is at it's worst. How would the landscape be different if the AWA paid decent rates and work rules through the past 15 years?

I don't think anyone has claimed that US contract (loa 93) has been good. But have claimed that through history AWA has trailed significantly vs other contracts.

Go down and compare what the west has now to what we are going to get.

Reserve min going down. Daily min going down. STD, LTD going down. Monthly ave going down. AWA trailed only in pay rates. We had industry leading in other areas.

On the other hand the east gains in all these areas.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Go down and compare what the west has now to what we are going to get.

Reserve min going down. Daily min going down. STD, LTD going down. Monthly ave going down. AWA trailed only in pay rates. We had industry leading in other areas.

On the other hand the east gains in all these areas.

Then it sucks to be you. All that and NO NIC! Waaah!

 

[Graceson]

Agreed, as something that should be obvious to all. "On another note, a few have asked about the other parts of the MOU and how they relate to better working conditions and pay for all pilots involved. I would like to see this discussion evolve into discussing those terms of this MOU..." = Much more pertinent thoughts at this juncture.

Wholly agree with both of you. It's best left as a one-sided debate in the interest of exploring POV's and advancing discussion on the entire MOU.

 

[Crzipilot]

Go down and compare what the west has now to what we are going to get.

Reserve min going down. Daily min going down. STD, LTD going down. Monthly ave going down. AWA trailed only in pay rates. We had industry leading in other areas.

On the other hand the east gains in all these areas.

Wasnt saying west wasnt loosing stuff, Was more pointing out that it's taken 10+ years of givebacks for all the other airlines to finally get DOWN to what the west has accomplished in 30 years.

 

[luvthe9]

VOTE NO

 

[Bill Brasky]

What am I missing? I read the MOU, and it really seems as just a bridge to a new contract. I don't see anything that limits what can be negotiated in the follow-on contract, just that the AMR 2012 contract is the starting point for negotiations, and that some new provisions will begin upon closing of the deal. It also looked like it had many more protections than I was expecting based on all the crying on this board and others.

I have to make a roadshow to get the real details, but I don't see what all the whining is about at this point. Can someone let me know what I've missed?

 

[luvthe9]

New AMR paint job

 

[Walmartgreeter]

What am I missing? I read the MOU, and it really seems as just a bridge to a new contract. I don't see anything that limits what can be negotiated in the follow-on contract, just that the AMR 2012 contract is the starting point for negotiations, and that some new provisions will begin upon closing of the deal. It also looked like it had many more protections than I was expecting based on all the crying on this board and others.

I have to make a roadshow to get the real details, but I don't see what all the whining is about at this point. Can someone let me know what I've missed?

Most of the new contract is probably what you see But like you say, there will be another bite at the apple, and hopefully a chance to fix a few (a few!) of things needing improment on the US Airways side ( maybe some tweaks to some of the insurance programs comes to mind.) This is better than anything we could ever get stand alone. Keep your fingers crossed. We are not quite there yet! Have you seen the "flight plan" document yet, just put out by the NAC?Greeter

 

[Claxon]

Clear,

The America West pilots dragged down the rest of the industry for years. Karma.
http://web.mit.edu/a...nd Copilots.pdf

 

[dca319]

VOTE NO

You'll probably be the only one.