Dave's Message

[700UW]

Apparently you don't know the stock market.

When you invest you are risking your money, there is nothing written in stone or law that say when you invest in the stock market that you are entitled to make money.

So Michael Milken, Charles Keating, Kenneth Lay, Martha Stewart and countless others were entitled to make money while their employees ended up with nothing?

What about all the hard working US Airways employees and shareholders who had their previous stock voided by the company in bankruptcy? Were they not entitled to thier money and more?

You can't have it both ways and talk out of both sides of your mouth.

Dr Bronner is not entitled to anything.

If you think he is sign your check over to RSA every two weeks.

Some people just don't have a clue.

 

[PITbull]

700UW,

I feel the exact same way...how about we take a vote and have usfliboi ante-up everything he's got , since he believes poor, poor RSA needs to have a return on their investment at the risk and financial jeopardy of the employees of U. Seems to me, USfliboi is living way too high on the hog and is feeling quite guilty for his wage.

 

[700UW]

Maybe he can visit the 20,000+ employees who have been laid off and see how they feel.

I say he signs his check over to RSA so those teachers and state employees can retire and our employees end up with nothing.

 

[ClueByFour]

You guys!!!! Where were all the other guys with heir money ???????? This guy took a risk plain and simple ITS a FACT ! Give credit where credit is dude. He has every right to get that money back and more.

The only right he has is to appoint the controlling majority of the board. That's it. His money (actually, to be more accurate, the money of many hard working Alabama folks) is at risk--as it would be with any other investment.

I know that Pitbull will scream mightily at this (and she and I have beat each other to death on this issue in the past, so it's really nothing new), but the ultimate driver for any business is to make money, and increase shareholder value. It's not to provide for, respect, or otherwise do anything at all for it's employees. Dave and Dave's first and most important priority is to increase shareholder value. As somebody who works for a living, I've accepted this rather shitty fact of life.

Having said that, a very good way to ensure that you increase shareholder value and return is by having (and retaining) a talented, happy, and productive employee base. Pissing off your employees will do nothing to add to the bottom line, and can, in many cases, hurt it in a big way. I would never put the few folks who I manage thru anything like what the Daves have done. Ever. I might as well shoot myself and/or take a header out my third floor office window. Both would do more for my career and my effort to increase shareholder value and return for my firm.

Concessions had to happen at US. At the time, it was the only way to keep the doors open. However, the crap that the Daves have pulled since (violating major portions of CBAs, attempting to unilaterally rewrite and creatively interperet others, etc) did not have to happen and should not have happened. Take the airbus outsourcing as a perfect example--the wanton hubris and incredible justification for doing so have failed to impress several federal judges, destroyed any chance the Daves will ever have of constructively working with the IAM-M group for years, and cost the company millions of dollars in lost revenue while the legal battle is ongoing. The initial plan to furlough FAs without offering the contractually required VF is another example--it destroys morale, any sense of cooperation, draws a line in the sand anytime further negotiations might be apropos, and cements a sense of distrust starting with the MEC and rippling down thru the rank and file from there.

Good management would have done two major things differently: obtained (or tried to obtain) what they really needed in Chapter 11--let's face it, they have the unions by the short hairs. The second thing that should have happened is a no-nonsense interpretation and implementation of the bargaining agreements. Obviously, the company might take a swing at some of the questionable language on items that might save money if interpreted in "their" (CCY's) favor. Items at the core of the CBAs (airbus outsourcing) or items impacting folks being let go (the AFA VF thing) were the worst possible items to dicker over.

There is something to be said for positive labor relations. The folks over at Southwest (prior to the concessions at all the majors) earned a lot less money than there counterparts at the big 6. However, the working climate, positive relationship with management, and benefits seemed to make for a happy group of people. In turn, this increased their shareholder value in a big way, which in turn paid dividends for the employees themselves (due to Southwest's generous profit sharing and stock option plans). Nonetheless, Southwest has proven for a long time that a happy employee does not necessarily mean one being paid "well" in comparison with their peers--there is something to be said for a happy working environment, job security, and working for a firm that legitimately seems to care about the welfare of it's employees (and backs this up with actions that demonstrate that attitude). Forget about all the structural comparisons (hub and spoke versus point to point, legacy versus LCCs)--the thing that the Daves should really try to emulate from Southwest is their employee relations.

The key, in my mind, is that while shareholders come first, one of the most important ways you can protect and enhance the value/return to shareholders is by having a happy and productive workforce. The Daves, without a major chance in attitude, will never get there--and, even with a change in attitude, probably still won't get there simply because the actions they have already taken have destroyed any credibility they might ever hope to obtain in this regard.

I've said on any number of occasions that I'd never work for these clowns (in my current profession, it would probably involve a staff job at CCY in a nonunion status). If I did hypothetically work at a represented bargaining group on the property, my vote would be a solid "no" on any further giveback requests from the current management team. Indeed, this proponent of the concessions during Chapter 11 would in fact vote to shut the thing down before giving another dime to the Daves.

 

[PITbull]

Clue,

How can I scream mightily at anything you state? I am in agreement as usual! Increasing shareholder value is the main focus of Senior Execs. in any public company that has shares trading.

However, at U, there is a clear distinction between increasing "sharholder value" vs. at the cost of "Human Value". This is where our company is failing on every level, EVEN with the "shareholders".

SW, as you cite, is a true example of great management who understand the importance of inspiring and motivating a work force FIRST, and the increase in the share price will come as a consequence of having a proactive, motivated group of employees. They have been in business 30 years, through robust economies along with downturns, and they still manage to make quaterly profits, even after 9/11. They have the "key" to success and understand the employee psyche which truly makes them a success story.

Bottom line, we just don't trust this management with devising a business plan and new business model that will work in todays airline industry environment.

USAirways employees are not unfamiliar with competitoin, even fierce competition from SW. Remember Peoples Express? In the late 80's they came out fiercely on the East Coast, directly in our markets with $19 one-way fares. They had tons of assistance from the gov. on relief to keep them in business, AND WE KICKED THEIR BUTTS RIGHT OUT OF BUSINESS. Our mangement was not afraid, and never screamed that they needed to sell assets and lower labor costs and cry "whoa is me". We held our ground and Hammered Peoples express right out of town and OUT OF BUSINESS!

That work force IS STILL ON THIS PROPERTY. We are not in fear of competing. WE ARE IN FEAR OF THIS MANGEMENT.

Truly, in the two years they have been on the property, they have not proven to anyone here or in the business community, or public or government officials that they can operate an airline other than taking the airline into BK, terminating leases, pensions, obliverating employee 401K stocks, and reducing wages/benefits/workrules from labor to the point that the workforce is not surviving along with 20,000 U employees furloughed. I know that if I put a gun to someone's head, I can take their car. That is not acquiescing to me the robber who just wanted the car. They conceded because they assumed the risk was too great not to give up the vehicle.

That is how this management was able to succeed thus far.

My question to management is "what will be their "participation" in the NEW and improved "transitional business plan" other than devising it?

 

[A319FA]

Excellent points Pitbull. I still remember this famous words and how they still seem like our destiny with the current management.

''We have no Plan B,'' insists US Airways President and CEO Rakesh Gangwal.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Nice summation PITbull !!!

Recently I saw an episode of the Wall Street Journal news being aired with South Wests executive Colleen Barret being interviewed. Mrs. Barret was quick to point out how thier program works from an internal standpoint....and how they prioritize thier function

Number 1 was "The Employee's "

Number 2 was "Profits"

and last but NOT least was the "Customer"

WN's winning ways are what legends are made of....and to this date Herb Kelleher is still listed as the person that most people would most like to work for.

U on the other hand doesn't put anything but Profits in positions 1 and 2....and that is directed purely in favor of the select few investors , the RSA and the Executive Branch of this hapless corporation.

U's problems are easily defined...begrudgingly corrected...yet ultimatley resolvable , If and only if a change in the corporate attitude and culture is acted upon in very very short order.

How we have always done or run it ...is no more the answer than the employee's eagerly opening up thier collective wallets to more of the same old song and dance.

We can give until we bleed...but unless a sweeping change of attitude permeates from the top down....the true potential within this company will continue to slip away until it's gone for good. Sadly as always....time is not in our favor. The time to get moving in an affirmative , yet positive direction is now Dave !!!!

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW said: “Get your resumes in order, because the IAM Mechanic and Related will not open thier contract.â€￾

Usfliboi said: ‘Unlike most on here with no facts in hand, I suggest Iam and others will "open the concession stand" again. Iam knows if it doesnt, they wont have a group to represent.â€￾

USA320Pilot says: Usfliboi, I agree with your comment. However, if the IAM does not participate in the “transformation planâ€￾ I understand their fate could be much, much worse.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[PITbull]

No it is because we have inept management.

The M&R group gave $300 million a year in cost savings, plus a couple thousand jobs.

Then the company had the audacity to steal the airbus work and so far three federal court decisions have told US Airways it is IAM covered work, so what does the company due? They park planes and still spend millions to fight its own employees.

This management cannot be trusted, the IAM leadership has told the company we will listen to your business plan but we will not open our contracts.

You can trust a thief but the IAM won't.

So 700UW what do you plan on doing for the next 20 years I sure hope it's not making the dollars your making now because if you havn't realized there not out there, but you can go back to school become a nurse because they make your kind of money but I don't think you will like it bed pans are nasty. Oh and remember unemployment is only for 6 months now. Do you have any kids a mortage any thing that means anything to you because you may not be able to hang on to it. Just so we understand each other I voted NO the first time and would again but it will go through because there are to many that don't have the time to start over and I realize that and if I were in that group I would do the same. Either live with it or hand in your ID and move on. I for one will ride it out and let them kick me out the door and while I am here will do my JOB and not cry and complain on how it should be.

Hey DOC, (what irony)

Nurisng is a respectable field that has a range of $40,000 starting and up, depending on education, field, experience. When is the last time YOU saw a nurse change a bed pan or clean one? And what is wrong with that when someone is so ill they need hospitalized?

In the past, I've made over $27,000 in one year just working 2 (12 hour) days a week.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

700UW said: ?Get your resumes in order, because the IAM Mechanic and Related will not open thier contract.?

Usfliboi said: ?Unlike most on here with no facts in hand, I suggest Iam and others will "open the concession stand" again. Iam knows if it doesnt, they wont have a group to represent.?

USA320Pilot says: Usfliboi, I agree with your comment. However, if the IAM does not participate in the ?transformation plan? I understand their fate could be much, much worse.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

Pack Sand USA320Pilot.....You have no more insight as to the IAM's potential fate , than you do your own at present.

The IAM is in the final days towards winning a major item of dispute in the PHL appeals court. The Judges favorable ruling will force U to either do the right thing...or park every Airbus we own (and YOU fly) over a period of time.

The IAM will in fact need more people on the property when and if U decides to accept it's losses in court and return the work to it's rightfull owners (THE IAM !!!)

Your fate is equally tied to the availabilty of "Safe , Serviceable and Avialable Aircraft to fly...so before you utter more stupidity , FUD and company sponsored threats...remember you may not have an Airbus to fly at all at some point in the future , if the company does not reverse it stance and delaying tactics regarding our work.

Without us...You will run out of planes to fly in time....So your future as a USA320Pilot maybe as short as anyone elses imagineable. If I go ?....I sure as hell hope I take you with me !! That would take some of the sting out of a regretable and avoidable circumstance , if nothing else?

 

[ClueByFour]

Pack Sand USA320Pilot.....You have no more insight as to the IAM's potential fate , than you do your own at present.

Ordinarily, I'd be saying "Ding! Give that man a cigar."

In this case, I have to qualify it:

USA320Pilot says: Usfliboi, I agree with your comment. However, if the IAM does not participate in the ?transformation plan? I understand their fate could be much, much worse.

Perhaps the "worse" fate could be unemployment. Of course, if it comes to that, everybody on the property will be unemployed.

Absent such an interpretation, I call on the original poster to post some shred of evidence to back the postulation that failing to "bend over" on the part of IAM-M will result in any harm to the membership, because I believe there is no credible (or otherwise) information that suggests such a thing to be true. Moreover, I believe it to be nothing more than the continued practice of citing "FUD" from sources that "don't exist."

Or, on second thought, get AOG a cigar.

 

[MarkMyWords]

I would just like to say one thing to those that think that ALPA will just roll over because of the 60 airplane carrot. ALPA is not a bunch of clowns that give away work rules and concessions at a whim. If ALPA does actually roll over on the concession issue, you can bet your bottom dollar that they have thoroughly reviewd the company financials and know that there are few options but to conceed.

 

[Frontier69]

Looks like Siegal is here to stay until Bronner can "persuade" him to "voluntarily" leave!

 

[usfliboi]

700UW,

I feel the exact same way...how about we take a vote and have usfliboi ante-up everything he's got , since he believes poor, poor RSA needs to have a return on their investment at the risk and financial jeopardy of the employees of U. Seems to me, USfliboi is living way too high on the hog and is feeling quite guilty for his wage.

Let me say this. If i invested the type money in a company to save it (esp coming from the outside ) in order to make money, I would do anything and everything to make a profit period....... I dont think what Bronner wants is unfair. He did not create this situation. You guys act as if he is responsible and he is not. It doesnt matter who this airline had leading right now, they would all do and say the same . So you have a choice Keep that little ole concession stand closed, or open a new one on the side of the street to survive.

 

[usjacket]

So usfliboi , you dont think what Bonner wants is unfair! How about a judge saying different. When the Hijacking of Airbus maintenance was attempted I guess it was just a coincidence it went to Mobile Alabama.