DAL has best earnings upside revisions in industry

[WorldTraveler]

I can think of plenty. 
MIA-basically anything
SFO-basically anything
ORD-basically anything.....
just saying.... 
 
Where did he say its a Delta operated station? 
 
and I assume this now means Delta has a maintenance base in PVG just like NRT   

DL absolutely has designs on more MIA and ORD flying.

just you wait and see.

SFO perhaps not so much but DL has routes from SFO in all directions. and, yes, DL still serves SFO-HNL even though AA pulled out.

and it is far from beyond imagination that DL would takeover a VS SFO route in order to pull DL metal on a SFO int'l route again. LAX is the primary west coast focus but SFO is not an afterthought. 

and Anderson said PVG maintenance would be DL employees. I'm not sure how else you would define DL operated.
 

Okay, not far far from Delta's numbers. I did the math on Delta + 7% compared to Delta + profitsharing....
Its not that much money. For a AMT is ~5,000 bucks,
 
but I would sell my profit sharing for all of the fleet minus one type of HMVs coming in-house. 
 
 
but again, Thats because I look at the big picture, you look at the "trying to make Delta look better" picture.

go ahead and do it.

I can assure you that you won't have much company.

The vast majority of employees don't care about what work they aren't doing as long as the company provides work for them to do and ensures that continues.

ALL of DL's increases in the use of RR and outsourcing have come at the same time they have protected the jobs of FT employees.

your peers look at their big picture, not some ethereal ideal that comes at the expense of their paycheck.

btw, I don't suppose you could admit that I was right about the amount of 717 flying that is coming to LAX.

 

[WorldTraveler]

btw, now that UA has reported its financials for 2014, DL is a larger airline than UA both in terms of mainline RPMs flown for the year as well as total revenue.

on the int'l front, UA's RASM report looked similar to DL's. Int'l RASM growth is challenged while domestic is where RASM growth is coming.

DL's domestic RASM growth is so far the stronger of carriers that have reported (mostly AA is left) and DL is also adding the most domestic capacity. clearly a smart strategic decision on DL's part.

 

[WeAAsles]

yeah, AA employees benefit from a stronger balance sheet... but a stronger balance sheet does nothing to improve your salary.

nothing.

Tell that to the FA's who just got a huge pay increase and the Pilots have their vote at the end of the month.

All of that after just coming out of BANKRUPTCY little over a year ago.


and AA is buying new aircraft faster than any other US airline which means the reduction in that balance sheet isn't going to happen near as fast as you might think.

You have factored in the 30% lower fuel costs on those new airplanes right? Oh and that wonderful new car smell as well.


and DL investors are more than likely not happy that DL is paying as much to its employees in profit sharing. but that is Richard Anderson's problem to deal with.

It is Doug Parker's job to face AA employees and tell them why AA's program of DL plus 7% still leaves them underpaid relative to their peers at DL.

He has. Because they only just came out of BANKRUPTCY and have to pay down some debt just as your venerated darling did 7 years ago. But "supposedly" underpaid is only if you skim the surface and don't factor in all those little items inside of a collective bargaining agreement. Those items to me are worth 100% more than what my DL counterparts are paid every single day.

and as for those pesky investors, you can let us know which US airline has returned more to stockholders in the past year. WN has a very long track record over time but I'm pretty sure that DL has given them a run for the title over the past several years.

WN did the best percentage return followed by AMERICAN AIRLINES. Didn't you read that news item?

and you didn't miss that DL stock was in the top tier of stocks on the S&P 500.

silly me, though, AA isn't in the S&P 500.

AA of course is not in the S&P 500 YET. Once again you do know that they only just came out of BANKRUPTCY a little over a year ago right? Why do you keep forgetting that? Do you have a short term memory disease?


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[WorldTraveler]

I absolutely realize that AA just emerged
And they will post strong results
But even with DL's BAD hedges DL is still stronger financially and will continue to strengthen
AA is not delivering revenue on par with DL yet
Perhaps with the res cutover and FF system changes they will start to close the gap

But for now AA has a short term hedge benefit that is offset by DL's stronger revenue performance and AA stll has $650 million in bad currency

And AA pay rates re not yet on par with DL including profit sharing

 

[WeAAsles]

I absolutely realize that AA just emerged
And they will post strong results
But even with DL's BAD hedges DL is still stronger financially and will continue to strengthen
AA is not delivering revenue on par with DL yet
Perhaps with the res cutover and FF system changes they will start to close the gap

But for now AA has a short term hedge benefit that is offset by DL's stronger revenue performance and AA stll has $650 million in bad currency

And AA pay rates re not yet on par with DL including profit sharing

Tell you what though. Since I think in long term rather than short term both forward and backward. My bet would be that if I took my compensation over the last 20 years of my career and compared it to my DL exclusive counterpart (How many of them are there?) my pay and benefits would stack up substantially over there's

Too bad "Airline Financials' doesn't put in those overall labor expenses for "in house" ground handling work. That's why you and I can bat back and forth forever without the tangible "overall value" proof being surmised.

The main value to me though is something you don't like to focus on. I have a CONTRACT. My employer cannot do to me whatever they want at will. Meaning they can't fire me if I'm a pain in the ass as long as I do my job. If I am fired though I have a process that "may" bring me back to work. It may even give me back pay and extra pay if the termination was severely uncalled for.

That in itself makes the dues I pay worth every single shiny little penny and then some. I'm NOT an at will or at whim employee.......

 

 

[topDawg]

DL absolutely has designs on more MIA and ORD flying.

Only in your dreams. Outside of added hub flying anything else is a pipe dream. (even much hub flying from ORD is a pipe dream, Delta has very little space) 
 

and Anderson said PVG maintenance would be DL employees. I'm not sure how else you would define DL operated.

 where did he say that?
 

The vast majority of employees don't care about what work they aren't doing as long as the company provides work for them to do and ensures that continues.

First nothing Delta does is ensured to continue. Could be gone tomorrow. 
 
second some of that work looks like its going to be outsourced. Two engine lines will be going away at some point while nothing coming in to replace them. 
 
third once again this is you on the outside talking to someone on the inside telling me what I know again. Outsourcing is something constantly, constantly, constantly brought up. Be it in meetings, calls etc.etc. So yes, people do care about it. You just don't know it because we don't have a single voice.... 
 
fourth, You are a complete fool if you don't think a large scale insourcing plus a 7% raise wouldn't get people happy. Yes the old guys, the I got mine guys (you know like you) would be pissed, but anyone who is junior would instantly be bumped up. Don't think the guy working in a bay he hates, on a shift he hates doing a job he hates wouldn't jump all over the chance to become more senior and could hold another bay, another shift, another job. Also all the ASMs and MUEs that are constantly b**ching about the lack of a clear process for advancement would be happy as a lark for all the open AMT spots that would open up.
 
but since you speak for the vast majority of mechanics please show me some data supporting you claims. 
 

ALL of DL's increases in the use of RR and outsourcing have come at the same time they have protected the jobs of FT employees.

Lies. 
Man this one really pisses me off. What a extremely amazingly stupid ass comment this is. 

When Delta cut all the overhauls out, dumped thousands of mechanics on the f**king streets who was protected? how did they protect any of us? 
 
and on the ramp the same question every time Delta dumped a station and laid people off just how were they protecting those people? 
 
Gah this has to take the cake for stupid s**t i have seen you post. Really chaps my ass that you can say Delta protected people when they were getting laid off, dorviced and killing themsevles. That isn't protecting a got damn thing. 

btw, I don't suppose you could admit that I was right about the amount of 717 flying that is coming to LAX.

You were right? I'm sorry you cant read and figure out I didn't say the 717 wasn't coming to LAX. AGAIN all I said is they wouldn't open a crew base, unless the fleet grows more than 88 ships. If they pick up some more 717s its quite possible that LAX, SLC or MSP get a base, but it will only be one.

 

[WorldTraveler]

ah yes, the "they don't have space" argument. somehow that hasn't stopped DL from continuing to drop capacity into SEA or LAX or for DL to figure out how to push far more people thru T4 than that terminal has ever seen.

DL doesn't even serve all of its hubs from ORD or MIA so yes there is absolutely room to add flights just to DL hubs.

the human cost of the business environment is real.
to argue that DL has not done more than any of its peers to protect its people is simply inaccurate.

and, yes, ONE TIME in your career DL leveled the entire maintenance operation. there isn't a single airline that didn't have the same "come to Jesus" moment for each work. since then it has been stable for you and others at DL and this is the best time in the history of the industry.

if you said that the 717 would come to LAX but wouldn't be a pilot base, then we are ok.

I am just glad to see more growth at LAX esp. via mainline upgrades.

 

[topDawg]

ah yes, the "they don't have space" argument. somehow that hasn't stopped DL from continuing to drop capacity into SEA or LAX or for DL to figure out how to push far more people thru T4 than that terminal has ever seen.

uh......what? Delta had plenty of room to grow at LA. And it isn't the most flights T5 has seen. Delta has peaked at 220 flights at LAX in the 1990s. 
SEA is using a busing operation for growth.....
 
but as it is Delta has way more space in those stations than your pipe dream stations in ORD/MIA. 
 

DL doesn't even serve all of its hubs from ORD or MIA so yes there is absolutely room to add flights just to DL hubs.

what? again what does that even mean.....DAL only have flights from one hub....doesn't mean Delta has space to add flights to the rest of the network. 

 

the human cost of the business environment is real.
to argue that DL has not done more than any of its peers to protect its people is simply inaccurate.

then why has Delta outsourced more than any other carrier. Why did Delta only have 14 stations pre-merger? 
 

and, yes, ONE TIME in your career DL leveled the entire maintenance operation. there isn't a single airline that didn't have the same "come to Jesus" moment for each work. since then it has been stable for you and others at DL and this is the best time in the history of the industry.

Okay, few things. 
1) nope don't think so. You don't get to tell me how many times Delta has saved my ass only for it to be complete, 100% total, all the way to the moon and back, biggest load of complete bull s**t you have ever said. Delta doesn't get a mulligan. You lied, again. Its as simple as that. I expect to you to admit it this time. 
2) Again, America does, did, even now, more work in-house than Delta. I know you can't grasp it but that doesn't mean it isn't true. 
3) Delta has outsourced plenty of times. Yes generally we on the MX side are lucky and it comes back(again that simple math thing shows its ugly head) but I can think of plenty examples of Delta sending work out before the big cut int 2005. 

 

[commavia]

2) Again, America does, did, even now, more work in-house than Delta. I know you can't grasp it but that doesn't mean it isn't true. 

 
According to the MIT Airline Data Project - based on airline DOT filings - AA in 2013 (the last year for which data is available) outsourced the lowest percentage of its overall maintenance, as measured by dollars spent, of virtually any major U.S. airline, and certainly the lowest among network airlines.  According to the MIT data, 30% of AA's overall M&E expense was outsourced (38% on a pro forma, combined basis) compared with 42% at Delta, 52% at United and 60% at Southwest.  From the same source, AA also had substantially more maintenance employees on payroll, relative to size, than its large peers - 94 M&E employees per billion departed seats (75 on a pro forma, combined basis) compared to 47 at Delta, 53 at United or 10 at Southwest.

 

[LD3]

 

btw, now that UA has reported its financials for 2014, DL is a larger airline than UA both in terms of mainline RPMs flown for the year as well as total revenue.

 
What is your infatuation with size? You probably skipped taking a shower after gym....

 

[WorldTraveler]

How many times did we hear that AA would be and is the largest with the merger?

Size does matter to all airlines and many other companies.

And dawg
AA reports under two certificates.. AA and US. Combined AA outsources nearly an identical amount of maintenance as DL
And DL had similar levels of outsourcing to AA standalone today before the NW merger.
DL's outsourcing grew dramatically with the merger

 

[jcw]

wait a minute now you are pointing out they report under two certificates vs one company - interesting how we switch back and forth as to whether that is important
 
 
Good to hear DL outsourced and therefore fired people during the merger vs AA where they are hiring and insourcing

 

[robbedagain]

wrong wrong wrong  just flat out wrong   If my memory recalls  700 has REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU about the US side of the outsourcing    You really CANNOT GRASP things 

 

[WorldTraveler]

wrong wrong wrong  just flat out wrong   If my memory recalls  700 has REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU about the US side of the outsourcing    You really CANNOT GRASP things

 700 is a union salesman.

DOT facts - the same ones that dawg wants to use and the accurate one - clearly say that US outsourced 54.2% of its maintenance spend, the highest level of any of the legacy airlines.

 

wait a minute now you are pointing out they report under two certificates vs one company - interesting how we switch back and forth as to whether that is important

bitter much and blinded to reality?

AA is one company operating under two certificates.

plz grasp ASAP that reality and understand that AA is not even close to being merged and therefore has to assume the same responsibilities with large amounts of outsourcing - no different than what NW brought to DL.

and AMFA walked off the job and virtually eliminated maintenance at NW. NW didn't have to fire anyone and DL didn't lay anyone off during the merger.

 

[topDawg]

How many times did we hear that AA would be and is the largest with the merger?

Size does matter to all airlines and many other companies.

And dawg
AA reports under two certificates.. AA and US. Combined AA outsources nearly an identical amount of maintenance as DL
And DL had similar levels of outsourcing to AA standalone today before the NW merger.
DL's outsourcing grew dramatically with the merger

Care to explain the huge bump between 2010 and 2011 then? 
 
and more importantly I don't care. We have had the talk before, Yes it is all northwest's fault that outsourcing at Delta keeps climbing and climbing and climbing. 6 years after the merger (or whatever it is) it is just still all on Northwest. 
 
smh.