Cutting Flights In Pit

[BoeingBoy]

So they looked at it five (or more) years ago when "financially-troubled " TWA was still hubbed there.

[post="269262"][/post]​

Actually, when Wolf was doing roadshows to push the concessions to implement his "vision" for US shortly after his arrival he talked about the "need" for a midwestern hub and specifically STL "if only TWA wasn't already there". So the longing for a midwestern hub goes back at least a decade.

Moreover, the PIT processing costs are high for a low O&D hub.

[post="269144"][/post]​

It never ceases to amaze me - a passenger "processing fee" is conjured up to support the idea that PIT is an expensive airport to operate from.

Don't get me wrong - all things being equal (same number of passengers and using the same amount of gates, counter space, etc), PIT will not have costs as low as CLT. But PIT is, in many ways, a better facility than CLT and was constructed about a decade later. Both should be expected to result in a somewhat higher cost.

However, inventing a mythical "processing fee" to justify abandoning PIT is mathmatical sleight of hand at it's worst. I'd be willing to bet that no other airline operating at PIT has a high a cost as US when the cost is calculated on a per passenger basis (well, maybe Indy Air since I don't know how many passengers they carry from their 1 gate). Heck, WN could probably handle as many passengers as we serve in PIT with 20-25% of the facilities we have and their "passenger processing fee" would be comparable to our per passenger cost in CLT.

Secondly, the ACAA is reducing the debt service at PIT via state and federal monies, and slot revenue (eventually). It's costs are high because of the design US extorted in the early 1990s. That US would complain about those costs now is pretty funny in an ironic sort of way.

[post="269267"][/post]​

Sorry for the rant, but it just irks me when PIT is blamed for something that was 100% caused by US cutting flights (and thus passengers) without cutting the amount of facilities used.

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

Just one more point...it would not surprise me if the PIT maintenance facility is closed and then the ACAA, US Airways, and Republic agree to place EMB-170 heavy maintenance in the former US Airways hangars.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

Guess you need to read the IAM/US Airways contract where the scope language says "Heavy Maintenance will be performed in CLT and PIT", and US has all ready closed several hangars in PIT.

The company is 0 and 1 on scope grievances, do they want another fight?

Don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[delldude]

i just talked to corprate and they informed me of pending slot give ups in LGA related to the merger...

 

[700UW]

I heard they were going to close the LGA crew base for Pilots Only also.

 

[MAH4546]

STL traffic has declined due to a reduction in flights. STL has a very large population base of about 4 million people, which is about the same size as PHL and four times the size of PIT.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269117"][/post]​

Not really...

Philadelphia MSA - 5,751,803 (4th largest)
St. Louis MSA - 2,729,045 (18th largest)
Pittsburgh MSA - 2,418,198 (22nd largest)

 

[pitflyer]

While I find the buzz around USA320Pilot posts always one of the most reasons to visit this board, it is too amusing to watch this back and forth about 4MM fliers around St Louis. St Louis MSA is a lot like Pittsburgh MSAs, only SLIGHTLY larger. The difference is that St Louis has no other major MSAs anywhere near them. So their cachet is the 2.8M as indicated by many others and referenced at http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t3/tab03.txt

With Pittsburgh, our MSA does not include Youngstown (less than one hour from the airport) .5 million or Cleveland-Akron (2.9M) (which ranges from 1.5 - 2 hours from the airport). Fliers in this region between Pittsburgh and Cleveland are often prone to take flights from either PIT, CLE or CAK and get reasonable service to major cities. There are no such cities around STL. I used to drive two hours from St Louis to Fort Leonard Wood, MO and there's NOTHING along the way except Walmarts. It's true 2 hours going in any other direction, which is the realistic limitation of most airport's reach.

While it's no doubt that St Louis is geographically better as a connecting hub, I'd love to see HP/US go into STL and watch AA and WN eat their lunch. I'd have to find some way to short the new company if that was their miracle strategy.

 

[TechBoy]

Assuming that all of this happens (merger, midwest hub availability, market, etc.), what aircraft are going to service this new hub? The US mainline fleet is scheduled to dwindle and all rumors of a merger indicate that there will be even further fleet reductions. So where do the planes come from? Draw down the other hubs? No, that would render them less cost effective. Exit DCA, LGA? No, those airports produce better yields than any midwest hub would. Close another hub? Maybe LAS could go, but it would be mighty risky.

Fact is there are no planes to start new hubs with.

 

[USA320Pilot]

It appears the Department of Defense is going to pull the plug on PIT, if Secretary Rumsfield gets his way. According to the AP, the 911TH Airlift Wing is on the list of base closures.

This would be another blow to Western PA and the Pittsburgh International Airport.

See Story

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

This would be another blow to Western PA and the Pittsburgh International Airport.

[post="269327"][/post]​

Assuming it comes to pass - these things tend to take a long time and undergo many changes - I'm not sure if it'll be much of a blow to the airport. While I certainly don't know, I'd be surprised if ACAA got all that much revenue from the military.

Besides, it's appears that this is the 911th Airlift Wing Air Reserve Station only, and not the 171st Air Refueling Wing Air National Guard Base.

Jim

 

[ClueByFour]

It appears the Department of Defense is going to pull the plug on PIT, if Secretary Rumsfield gets his way. According to the AP, the 911TH Airlift Wing is on the list of base closures.

This would be another blow to Western PA and the Pittsburgh International Airport.

[post="269327"][/post]​

You know, if PIT loses that many flights and whatnot, getting to work might be tough especially for commuters. What goes around does indeed come around. That said, it's interesting to note that O&D traffic at PIT is climbing to all-time highs with the US pullback. Facilitating more people to travel at a lower cost is far more valuable to the local economy that being hamstrung by a high-fare carrier that fleeced the local tax base out of a billion dollar plus terminal and then cut and ran in bankruptcy. If Western PA can only rid itself of those who actually support such a move, it would be in really good shape.

That said, the 911th was on the list sent to the BRAC from the Pentagon in 1995. It was removed from the list that made it to the President. Seeing there again should not come as a suprise.

With a freshmen Congressman and one of two US Senators facing the mother of all re-elections next year, the 911th is most certainly not a slam-dunk closure.

 

[justaumechanic]

Keep something in mind.. There is no guarantee of anything.. If a merger with AmWest does occur there is a good possibility all the US Airways people will fall under AmWest Contracts..

Keep in mind that AmWest does no heavy maintenance at all. PIT would become obsolete.. It would be shut down..

Don't think that the US Airways contract will be the surviving document.. Since AmWest's contracts are much more lenient you can bet that those will be the surviving contracts.. US Airways is in chapter 11 so anything can happen.

I had to say it but I would have to agree with USA320.. The chance of PIT Mtc closing down is very very very high.. Facility consolidation will occur swiftly.

AmWest has no desire to get in the Heavy Maintenance game.. It would all be farmed out..

Guess you need to read the IAM/US Airways contract where the scope language says "Heavy Maintenance will be performed in CLT and PIT", and US has all ready closed several hangars in PIT.

The company is 0 and 1 on scope grievances, do they want another fight?

Don't let the facts get in your way.

[post="269289"][/post]​

 

[BoeingBoy]

US Airways traffic slumps, others up in Pittsburgh

"US Airways Group Inc.'s reductions in service at Pittsburgh International Airport have resulted in a sharp decline in the number of people using the airline here, according to figures released by airport officials Friday."

Jim

ps - I guess this means that the "passenger processing fee" is going thru the roof , but only for US :down: . Those other carriers are as their PIT costs get spread over more passengers .

 

[pitflyer]

Note the 171th Air Refueling Wing, which I believe also shares the PIT airport area, was not listed, so it is not scheduled for closing or realignment. Yes, it is too bad that the 911th and two other military bases in the area are scheduled to close or realign, but it's not surprising at all. Also, base closures are phased in, so it'll drag along if it does happen (kinda like the USAirways pull down in PIT).

 

[USA320Pilot]

I spent 13 years in the 911th AW and I fully understand the implications of the base closing, since I was part of the team that saved the installation the last time it was on the base closure list.

In addition to the airport losing a tenant, the impact on the community would be significant due to lost jobs and other economic factors. The potential base closure is not good and will hinder the local economy, if it happens.

Regards,

USA320Pilot